Head Tracking with Cliffs of Dover

[Novotny]

Well, they could protect any aspect of their code - which would include maths. They could also protect how their code interfaces with their hardware - that seems quite reasonable to me.

I just don't understand why people think NP are evil. No one has produced any argument to sway me, and again, I think it's down to cost, at the end of the day. I wish it was cheaper too.

Edit:: Masterblaster, I just noted your final sentence. With respect, I think you are misunderstanding the legality of the points being argued.

[Stipe]

Please don't think I'm trolling or that I want to fight. I just want to learn and understand.
"They can defend any part of their code". Which part? What if they are trying to protect a piece of code that is essential for any head tracking software to work and that is generic or the basis of any code?
That's why i would like to see copyright proof of what they feel is theirs. At the end of the day, almost everyone can afford track ir. But for the quality not becouse it's the only option. I bought simped rudder pedals, again, becouse it's a quality product that will last me for years.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Stipe

At the end of the day, almost everyone can afford track ir. But for the quality not becouse it's the only option.

That's what seems to be getting to the real crux of the problem and that is the quality of the TIR system. True, that some people may have a hard time of affording it, but they seem to have their computers and their monitors and other hardwares, etc, as well as their beers and iphones.

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by Novotny

Well, they could protect any aspect of their code - which would include maths. They could also protect how their code interfaces with their hardware - that seems quite reasonable to me.

I just don't understand why people think NP are evil. No one has produced any argument to sway me, and again, I think it's down to cost, at the end of the day. I wish it was cheaper too.

Edit:: Masterblaster, I just noted your final sentence. With respect, I think you are misunderstanding the legality of the points being argued.

The only point with that last sentance is to clarify that legal rights protection on software is called a copyright and legal right protection on hardware is called a patent. Not meant as commentary on the arguement. I just see the words being thrown around in the discussion interchangeably and they are really not interchangeable. But if I'm missing something, please point it out.

[Novotny]

I have to sign off. You may have noted that I'm from Belfast, and I have almost finished an entire bottle of Scotch. Yes, I am that drunk, however I'm not so stupid that I can't spell.

I've enjoyed our discussions, and will of course be back for more tomorrow. Or later this day. Depends on how you look at it.

Au Revoir!, and for god's sake, look for the good, not the bad, you silly bastards.

[julian265]

Novotny, If the maths was copyrighted, it would have no effect unless it could be proven that the maths was copied... Any person wanting to make a head tracker could come up with their own code (from the existing, published methods), without any worry about infringing anyone's copyright.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by julian265

Any person wanting to make a head tracker could come up with their own code (from the existing, published methods), without any worry about infringing anyone's copyright.

yes! exactly! Hi 5

[Stipe]

I can afford it, but don't want too. It's not good enough price/performance wise and because they are trying to fight the whole world.
Top reason is this:

Forced obsolescence
Gamasutra: "How quickly does this sort of tech become outdated?"
NauralPoint: "As fast as we can make it outdated?"
All TrackIR cameras work with the OptiTrack SDK and the latest 64bit drivers but not the latest software (although TrackIR 2 and SmartNav 1 are disabled in the driver INF file).
TrackIR 1 & 2 cameras excluded in v3 software and higher, limiting them to 2DOF.
TrackIR 1 & 2 cameras excluded from encrypted interface introduced in v4.1.036 software and used by newer games.
TrackIR 3 cameras require purchase of software license for 6DOF with v4 software.
TrackIR 3 cameras and below excluded by v5 software.

Removed functionality
Camera image cropping removed in v3 software and above.
Mouse emulation moved into separate executable (TIRMouse.exe) and restricted to games only in v4 software and above.
Mouse override delay removed in v4 software and above.
Mouse button hotkeys removed in v4 software and above.
TrackIR 4 and above not back compatible with software v3 and below.
More precise single point 2DOF tracking removed in v5 software.
Camera orientation control removed in v5 software.
Preferred object size removed in v5 software.
Recording and playback removed in v5 software.

I don't want to buy a new version every year or two.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Stipe

I can afford it, but don't want too.

There is the exact crux of the problem

Originally Posted by Stipe

I can afford it, but don't want too It's not good enough price/performance wise and because they are trying to fight the whole world.
Top reason is this:

Forced obsolescence
Gamasutra: "How quickly does this sort of tech become outdated?"
NauralPoint: "As fast as we can make it outdated?"

to put the quoted excerpt into its proper persective...

How many versions of TrackIR have there been, and what advances have there been in the technology?

We've released 4 models so far, with continuous improvements. Increased responsiveness thanks to higher frame rates, better smoothing algorithms, and resolution enhancements. We've widened the field of view, so users can enjoy a broader range of motion. At first TrackIR was just emulating a mouse, so it was a big jump to have it supported in games as it's own separate input, and another big jump to add full 6DOF support (because then TrackIR could do a lot of things that just weren't possible with mouse-look). We've also done a lot to improve light filtering and tracking algorithms, so you don't have to worry about interference from reflections that occur on your glasses, or a shiny forehead, etc.

How quickly does this sort of tech become outdated?

As fast as we can make it outdated? It's tricky to nail down from a tech perspective, because the system is potpourri of special components, carefully combined for max performance at min cost. We don't talk about it as much, but alongside the hardware design and software improvements, we've been honing the ways we effectively acquire and mix components. I think gyros and accelerometers are already outdated, since they just can't guarantee the level of fidelity that optical offers, but they still seem to be popping up in the latest console controllers because they've come down in price. This cost-effective mix keeps everything moving very fast.

From a broader perspective, excellent 6DOF tracking without markers of any kind may be possible within 5 years. This seems like the Holy Grail at the moment for any optical tracking device. But we doubt that quest will end up with a solution that's as fast, precise, and affordable as TrackIR. For example, we've improved on our initial device for 5 years now, but that first version still offers more precise tracking data than an EyeToy. For game players, motion tracking is already available and will just be refined with different tech. So we're working to stay well ahead of the curve behind the scenes, and reinforce that premium head tracking isn't going away any time soon. "


http://gamasutra.com/view/news/10729...on_Tracker.php

Originally Posted by Stipe

All TrackIR cameras work with the OptiTrack SDK and the latest 64bit drivers but not the latest software (although TrackIR 2 and SmartNav 1 are disabled in the driver INF file).
TrackIR 1 & 2 cameras excluded in v3 software and higher, limiting them to 2DOF.
TrackIR 1 & 2 cameras excluded from encrypted interface introduced in v4.1.036 software and used by newer games.
TrackIR 3 cameras require purchase of software license for 6DOF with v4 software.
TrackIR 3 cameras and below excluded by v5 software.

Removed functionality
Camera image cropping removed in v3 software and above.
Mouse emulation moved into separate executable (TIRMouse.exe) and restricted to games only in v4 software and above.
Mouse override delay removed in v4 software and above.
Mouse button hotkeys removed in v4 software and above.
TrackIR 4 and above not back compatible with software v3 and below.
More precise single point 2DOF tracking removed in v5 software.
Camera orientation control removed in v5 software.
Preferred object size removed in v5 software.
Recording and playback removed in v5 software.

I don't want to buy a new version every year or two.

all that must mean you are running a very old system then?

[Stipe]

W-R I'm just waiting for you to start:" how do you afford food?" "do you eat old meat?"
everything isn't related. Unless you want it to be. Or make it. Why do you have the need to incorporate every single thing into a head tracking discussion is beyond me.
No, i dont have very old system. It's not new either. It get's the job done. I upgrade things around me if they are that much better then previous version and it's worth the money.
I said track ir is not. For me anyway.
And all this is pointless. Devs needs to include freetrack dll. If they don't it's theirs fault not NP. You simply don't buy the game. Period.