If UBI's DRM scheme is unacceptable...

[addman]

Interesting reasoning going on here. Some claim DRM is a way for the publishers to control how the people play, how does that make ANY sense from ANY perspective?LOL! I don't now wether to laugh or cry at the DRM haters, I'll mention a few common "anti-DRM" arguments:

1. I don't have a stable internet connection so I can't play if I'm offline.
In this case that argument flies right out the door since it seems the game only requires online ACTIVATION. I presume most of you know what activation means. Now, IF the game will need to be AUTHENTICATED online whilst playing it then it might be a problem for some people. Now, in most developed countries even the slowest DSL connection is stable enough, I have an 8Mbit DSL connection and it drops about 1 time/2 months, I restart the modem ca 10-20 sec and it works again. If you are living in a developing country then I can see some issues of course.

2. I want to be able to play the game on the go (offline).
Hmm, who plays a flightsim "on the go"? I sometimes bring my Nintendo DS or PSP around on trips or whatever but even those are cumbersome and especially the PSP takes a good time to load some games. So if you are on a business trip or something you actually bring your huge-*ss gaming laptop with you? You're gonna need a joystick, where do you put your HOTAS or even a "smaller" joystick? in your back pocket? They won't even fit in a small suitcase! Ok, presume you DO bring all that stuff with you on your trips, most hotels (even cheaper ones) have free Wlan.

There are more arguments of course. Why is there DRM? To scare off customers? I don't think so, customers=€. DRM exists because of rampant piracy. Piracy has basically destroyed the Sony PSP and the Nintendo DS and it's not helping PC gaming by any means. The XBox 360 and the PS3 gets firmware updates regularely that makes sure you don't have a hardware modified consoles. Also, if you want to be able to play Call of Duty: Black Ops online -most people play it online- you need a valid copy. Latest is that security loopholes in the PS3 hardware/software have been discovered by some self-justified hacker group. They claim -of course- that it's good for those who want to use homebrew apps on their PS3 but we all know what the reason really is.

Point is, DRM is there to protect from piracy so that the games will generate enough profit for a + figure on the publishers/developers accounts so that they may CONTINUE to produce and publish games. Those of you who don't like DRM, fine! don't buy the game and don't play the game. You might as well stop posting on this forum since you wont play the game when it's released -what's the point really?-. As for me, I'm gonna get the "edition for the few", install it and play it for -hopefully- many years to come. DRM doesn't bother me in any way, but that's just me and this is me being subjective

[=Kike=]

Originally Posted by addman

Interesting reasoning going on here. Some claim DRM is a way for the publishers to control how the people play, how does that make ANY sense from ANY perspective?LOL! I don't now wether to laugh or cry at the DRM haters, I'll mention a few common "anti-DRM" arguments:

1. I don't have a stable internet connection so I can't play if I'm offline.
In this case that argument flies right out the door since it seems the game only requires online ACTIVATION. I presume most of you know what activation means. Now, IF the game will need to be AUTHENTICATED online whilst playing it then it might be a problem for some people. Now, in most developed countries even the slowest DSL connection is stable enough, I have an 8Mbit DSL connection and it drops about 1 time/2 months, I restart the modem ca 10-20 sec and it works again. If you are living in a developing country then I can see some issues of course.

2. I want to be able to play the game on the go (offline).
Hmm, who plays a flightsim "on the go"? I sometimes bring my Nintendo DS or PSP around on trips or whatever but even those are cumbersome and especially the PSP takes a good time to load some games. So if you are on a business trip or something you actually bring your huge-*ss gaming laptop with you? You're gonna need a joystick, where do you put your HOTAS or even a "smaller" joystick? in your back pocket? They won't even fit in a small suitcase! Ok, presume you DO bring all that stuff with you on your trips, most hotels (even cheaper ones) have free Wlan.

There are more arguments of course. Why is there DRM? To scare off customers? I don't think so, customers=€. DRM exists because of rampant piracy. Piracy has basically destroyed the Sony PSP and the Nintendo DS and it's not helping PC gaming by any means. The XBox 360 and the PS3 gets firmware updates regularely that makes sure you don't have a hardware modified consoles. Also, if you want to be able to play Call of Duty: Black Ops online -most people play it online- you need a valid copy. Latest is that security loopholes in the PS3 hardware/software have been discovered by some self-justified hacker group. They claim -of course- that it's good for those who want to use homebrew apps on their PS3 but we all know what the reason really is.

Point is, DRM is there to protect from piracy so that the games will generate enough profit for a + figure on the publishers/developers accounts so that they may CONTINUE to produce and publish games. Those of you who don't like DRM, fine! don't buy the game and don't play the game. You might as well stop posting on this forum since you wont play the game when it's released -what's the point really?-. As for me, I'm gonna get the "edition for the few", install it and play it for -hopefully- many years to come. DRM doesn't bother me in any way, but that's just me and this is me being subjective

+1

[Wolf_Rider]

+2

[csThor]

Originally Posted by addman

Why is there DRM? To scare off customers? I don't think so, customers=€. DRM exists because of rampant piracy.

That's smokescreen-talk. To counter piracy a working copy protection would be sufficient. DRM is about tying customers to the publisher, introduce more and more stringent DRM schemes and pay-DLCs, prepare the way for true cloud-computing and ultimately force pay-to-play (even if called "club membership fee" to ease the public outcry) for any kind of game. This is what DRM is about - it's about introducing various new ways of squeezing even more money out of customers, money which will flow to the Publisher alone and which will not be used to develop better games. And this is why I believe DRM is inacceptable while copy protection is.

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by csThor

That's smokescreen-talk. To counter piracy a working copy protection would be sufficient. DRM is about tying customers to the publisher, introduce more and more stringent DRM schemes and pay-DLCs, prepare the way for true cloud-computing and ultimately force pay-to-play (even if called "club membership fee" to ease the public outcry) for any kind of game. This is what DRM is about - it's about introducing various new ways of squeezing even more money out of customers, money which will flow to the Publisher alone and which will not be used to develop better games. And this is why I believe DRM is inacceptable while copy protection is.

Well said. However, there is no such thing as working copy protection.

The latest attempts (SHV and Assassin's Creed) were, amongst other stuff already mentioned - to prevent re-sales.

All in all some very strong arguments against DRM.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by addman

Interesting reasoning going on here. Some claim DRM is a way for the publishers to control how the people play, how does that make ANY sense from ANY perspective?LOL! I don't now wether to laugh or cry at the DRM haters, I'll mention a few common "anti-DRM" arguments:

1. I don't have a stable internet connection so I can't play if I'm offline.
In this case that argument flies right out the door since it seems the game only requires online ACTIVATION. I presume most of you know what activation means. Now, IF the game will need to be AUTHENTICATED online whilst playing it then it might be a problem for some people. Now, in most developed countries even the slowest DSL connection is stable enough, I have an 8Mbit DSL connection and it drops about 1 time/2 months, I restart the modem ca 10-20 sec and it works again. If you are living in a developing country then I can see some issues of course.

2. I want to be able to play the game on the go (offline).
Hmm, who plays a flightsim "on the go"? I sometimes bring my Nintendo DS or PSP around on trips or whatever but even those are cumbersome and especially the PSP takes a good time to load some games. So if you are on a business trip or something you actually bring your huge-*ss gaming laptop with you? You're gonna need a joystick, where do you put your HOTAS or even a "smaller" joystick? in your back pocket? They won't even fit in a small suitcase! Ok, presume you DO bring all that stuff with you on your trips, most hotels (even cheaper ones) have free Wlan.

There are more arguments of course. Why is there DRM? To scare off customers? I don't think so, customers=€. DRM exists because of rampant piracy. Piracy has basically destroyed the Sony PSP and the Nintendo DS and it's not helping PC gaming by any means. The XBox 360 and the PS3 gets firmware updates regularely that makes sure you don't have a hardware modified consoles. Also, if you want to be able to play Call of Duty: Black Ops online -most people play it online- you need a valid copy. Latest is that security loopholes in the PS3 hardware/software have been discovered by some self-justified hacker group. They claim -of course- that it's good for those who want to use homebrew apps on their PS3 but we all know what the reason really is.

Point is, DRM is there to protect from piracy so that the games will generate enough profit for a + figure on the publishers/developers accounts so that they may CONTINUE to produce and publish games. Those of you who don't like DRM, fine! don't buy the game and don't play the game. You might as well stop posting on this forum since you wont play the game when it's released -what's the point really?-. As for me, I'm gonna get the "edition for the few", install it and play it for -hopefully- many years to come. DRM doesn't bother me in any way, but that's just me and this is me being subjective

+1

[Tacoma74]

Originally Posted by addman

Interesting reasoning going on here. Some claim DRM is a way for the publishers to control how the people play, how does that make ANY sense from ANY perspective?LOL! I don't now wether to laugh or cry at the DRM haters, I'll mention a few common "anti-DRM" arguments:

1. I don't have a stable internet connection so I can't play if I'm offline.
In this case that argument flies right out the door since it seems the game only requires online ACTIVATION. I presume most of you know what activation means. Now, IF the game will need to be AUTHENTICATED online whilst playing it then it might be a problem for some people. Now, in most developed countries even the slowest DSL connection is stable enough, I have an 8Mbit DSL connection and it drops about 1 time/2 months, I restart the modem ca 10-20 sec and it works again. If you are living in a developing country then I can see some issues of course.

2. I want to be able to play the game on the go (offline).
Hmm, who plays a flightsim "on the go"? I sometimes bring my Nintendo DS or PSP around on trips or whatever but even those are cumbersome and especially the PSP takes a good time to load some games. So if you are on a business trip or something you actually bring your huge-*ss gaming laptop with you? You're gonna need a joystick, where do you put your HOTAS or even a "smaller" joystick? in your back pocket? They won't even fit in a small suitcase! Ok, presume you DO bring all that stuff with you on your trips, most hotels (even cheaper ones) have free Wlan.

There are more arguments of course. Why is there DRM? To scare off customers? I don't think so, customers=€. DRM exists because of rampant piracy. Piracy has basically destroyed the Sony PSP and the Nintendo DS and it's not helping PC gaming by any means. The XBox 360 and the PS3 gets firmware updates regularely that makes sure you don't have a hardware modified consoles. Also, if you want to be able to play Call of Duty: Black Ops online -most people play it online- you need a valid copy. Latest is that security loopholes in the PS3 hardware/software have been discovered by some self-justified hacker group. They claim -of course- that it's good for those who want to use homebrew apps on their PS3 but we all know what the reason really is.

Point is, DRM is there to protect from piracy so that the games will generate enough profit for a + figure on the publishers/developers accounts so that they may CONTINUE to produce and publish games. Those of you who don't like DRM, fine! don't buy the game and don't play the game. You might as well stop posting on this forum since you wont play the game when it's released -what's the point really?-. As for me, I'm gonna get the "edition for the few", install it and play it for -hopefully- many years to come. DRM doesn't bother me in any way, but that's just me and this is me being subjective

+1

There were also accounts of people running into problems with program compatibility issues. Things like iTunes and such not working with Ubi's DRM on other games. My opinion: You must be crazy to pass up this masterpiece of a sim just so you can have those crappy programs. CoD will be of the highest priority on my system hands down.

[robtek]

I really, really don't understand why there are people still believing that DRM pevents piracy.

Wake up!!!
No DRM has protected any software against piracy!

Usually the pirated copys are leaked before DRM is even implemented.
If that didn't happen the "super-safe-protection" is cracked within days (SHV), leaving the legal owner with a almost unusable Software (SHV-Servers)
and the users of pirated copys went scot-free.

Just remember this saying: The price of security is freedom.

Give the legal owners something the pirates can't give and you have won.

[yellonet]

Originally Posted by addman

Interesting reasoning going on here. Some claim DRM is a way for the publishers to control how the people play, how does that make ANY sense from ANY perspective?LOL! I don't now wether to laugh or cry at the DRM haters, I'll mention a few common "anti-DRM" arguments:

It's even more interesting to see people that defend the use of DRM, as they've obviously swallowed the whole concept as the publishers present it, hook line and sink.
Why someone would trust a large company whose sole purpose is to make money over their fellow customers views - who probably have the same goal in mind - is frankly beyond me.

Originally Posted by addman

1. I don't have a stable internet connection so I can't play if I'm offline.
In this case that argument flies right out the door since it seems the game only requires online ACTIVATION. I presume most of you know what activation means. Now, IF the game will need to be AUTHENTICATED online whilst playing it then it might be a problem for some people. Now, in most developed countries even the slowest DSL connection is stable enough, I have an 8Mbit DSL connection and it drops about 1 time/2 months, I restart the modem ca 10-20 sec and it works again. If you are living in a developing country then I can see some issues of course.

If there's only a one time activation and absolutely nothing more, that's likely fine for most people, but something like that isn't really DRM.

Originally Posted by addman

2. I want to be able to play the game on the go (offline).
Hmm, who plays a flightsim "on the go"? I sometimes bring my Nintendo DS or PSP around on trips or whatever but even those are cumbersome and especially the PSP takes a good time to load some games. So if you are on a business trip or something you actually bring your huge-*ss gaming laptop with you? You're gonna need a joystick, where do you put your HOTAS or even a "smaller" joystick? in your back pocket? They won't even fit in a small suitcase! Ok, presume you DO bring all that stuff with you on your trips, most hotels (even cheaper ones) have free Wlan.

See, already you're grasping for straws for arguments to support these kind of systems that prevent the customer to use the software where and when they like.
It's not about how many people that use it like this, it's about the principle that the publishers are moving towards more and more control over how you use the product you paid them to use.
It's not like anyone would buy a car that they could only drive between 7 and 12 and only fill up with gas on select stations. The point being, when you buy something you should be able to use it as you see fit. Not as the seller decides for you.

Originally Posted by addman

There are more arguments of course. Why is there DRM? To scare off customers? I don't think so, customers=€. DRM exists because of rampant piracy. Piracy has basically destroyed the Sony PSP and the Nintendo DS and it's not helping PC gaming by any means. The XBox 360 and the PS3 gets firmware updates regularely that makes sure you don't have a hardware modified consoles. Also, if you want to be able to play Call of Duty: Black Ops online -most people play it online- you need a valid copy. Latest is that security loopholes in the PS3 hardware/software have been discovered by some self-justified hacker group. They claim -of course- that it's good for those who want to use homebrew apps on their PS3 but we all know what the reason really is.

Of course DRM isn't there to scare off customers, and no one suggested that either.
And yeah, Nintendo DS is being destroyed, what a joke! The DS is a complete success story and makes loads of money for Nintendo.
When we're already on the topic of consoles, one of the reasons why the Playstation became so popular was because it was so easy to get hold of pirate copies of games, it was technically inferior to the N64 at the time and had crappier controls, still it was a major success, and that continued with the Playstation 2 where the games where just as easy to come by cheap.
Piracy is far from the negative force that the developers and publishers wants us to think.

Originally Posted by addman

Point is, DRM is there to protect from piracy so that the games will generate enough profit for a + figure on the publishers/developers accounts so that they may CONTINUE to produce and publish games. Those of you who don't like DRM, fine! don't buy the game and don't play the game. You might as well stop posting on this forum since you wont play the game when it's released -what's the point really?-. As for me, I'm gonna get the "edition for the few", install it and play it for -hopefully- many years to come.

Actually no, DRM is not to combat piracy. DRM stands for Digital Rights Management, in essence it's a common name for different bits of software that are designed to manage your digital rights of the software that you've bought a license for.
DRM is often used with movies and music for instance, deciding - for you - on which player you can play it or perhaps if you can transfer the movie/music to different media than the original one.
Pirates will crack the DRM and then it's out of the picture, so no DRM is not to fight piracy but to enforce the publishers view of how you should use the software.

Originally Posted by addman

DRM doesn't bother me in any way, but that's just me and this is me being subjective

And that's fine. But you should also respect people that are against DRM.