FAQ-QUESTIONS,release date,system specs, for CoD

[Baron]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

Your evidence for this is.... What?
Sorry for being blunt/rude but you dont seem to know much about how computer graphics work do you? Or you didnt read my explanation.
I think I coverd the power vs graphics detail in it.

Come on, ok lets make it simple. Run Heaven benchmark without tesselation, then with tesselation.

Notice any differance in, oh i dont know, fps maby?


P.S. As for your explanation, i dont know what i has to do with tesselation perse. Why would tesselation be usefull rendering boxes (bombers) from 4 km away? Thats not what tesselation is all about.

Its not like u get all those thousands of extra polygons for free u know. Tesselation isnt used for extra performance boost, its used to get extra eyecandy with less performance hit than with traditional tecniques, however u WILL have a performance hit no matter how u slice it compared to not running tesselation.

[TheGrunch]

Is it just me who finds the post you just quoted extremely amusing? "Sorry for being blunt/rude but you dont seem to know much about how computer graphics work do you?" Backing up an argument that basically says "Tesselation = magic, be sure!".

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Baron

Come on, ok lets make it simple. Run Heaven benchmark without tesselation, then with tesselation.

Notice any differance in, oh i dont know, fps maby?


P.S. As for your explanation, i dont know what i has to do with tesselation perse. Why would tesselation be usefull rendering boxes (bombers) from 4 km away? Thats not what tesselation is all about.

Its not like u get all those thousands of extra polygons for free u know. Tesselation isnt used for extra performance boost, its used to get extra eyecandy with less performance hit than with traditional tecniques, however u WILL have a performance hit no matter how u slice it compared to not running tesselation.

... Ok no you dont but you need to think through your posts. Oleg can make beutiful and high polygon count models of aircraft, smoot rounded hulls and all. Without tessalation or distance mapping the aircraft is renderd in all its full glory even at 10 miles away where you can even make out what type of plane it is. So 1000 planes in the distance (lets say far enough that you can see there basic outline) are being renderd in full detail (high polygon count). Dont you think this will kill frame rate?

With tessalation, those aircraft in the distance would be low polygon count models, but you would not be able to see that because they are far from you on the screen, this gives a big boost in performance as it has far far far less rendering/polygons the gpu has to work with. As you get closer the tessalation kicks in and increases the polygon count gradually, you never notice the difference but at close range the plane is just as detailed if not far more detailed then it would be without tesselation. You get the quality without the performance hit that the quality would bring otherwise.

And yes I do have the unigine benchmark and have used it extensivly to setup my gpu/overclock. The reason I responded as I did before was because your question was silly, think about it...
Of course it takes a fps hit creating each cobblestone vs flat bump mapped ground. BUT without tesselation you would have the flat ground, or the ENTIRE image would be tesselated, even distant objects you cannot visually see clear enough to see any change. Therefor tessalation improves performance as it phases in geometry when you can actually get close enough to see it.

I have done some graphics work in the past with Maya 7.0 (mostly), including models, texture mapping (photoshop) and alittle animation. As far as I can tell from the Oleg quote I think he misunderstands and or isnt updated on the newest info (from what I have heard). I will look for it but I believe Nvidia advertised multi level tesselation for models with the 500 series release. Therefor the models would not have to be modeled (which they arent) as tesselation extrapolates from the base models (sure its alittle more complicated then that, but thats the jist of what I heard).

Not an amazing video but this demonstrates the difference, pay attention to the geometry mesh (I know its not a great video). As a recap tesselation allows huge polygon counts with minimal performance loss due to it being based on distance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-6lR...eature=related

[The Kraken]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

Oleg can make beutiful and high polygon count models of aircraft, smoot rounded hulls and all. Without tessalation or distance mapping the aircraft is renderd in all its full glory even at 10 miles away where you can even make out what type of plane it is.

It is not, that's what standard LOD techniques are for which switch to lower polygon models depending on distance. Unlike tessellated models they can also use GPU features for rapidly processing duplicate geometry parts which further increases performance.

Add the huge overhead of creating dedicated DX11 models for the developers which would only be useful for a small audience and it doesn't look like a good approach anymore. There's a reason why outside of graphics demos, tesselation is restricted to spicing up generic surfaces so far.

Like all new GPU features before it will take a few years and 1-2 GPU generations before this will see widespread use, especially with consoles out of the equation.

Besides the main issue with hundreds of planes is not the rendering, but AI & FM calculations. Optimizing this area would be more important than exploring new graphics technologies that so far only few people can use.

Heliocon!!!

Tesselation is not the magic wonder you seem to think it is. From your posts it's obvious that you don't know how it and other features common in computer gaming work.

[TheGrunch]

Heliocon, LOD models (i.e. switching to lower poly models at a distance) have been in Il-2 since 2001, for crying out loud. Never mind SoW. Tessellation is just like normal/parallax mapping in its effects, if not in its inner workings.

Like Oleg said, tesselation can be useful for human body, uniforms, wheels, etc.
I think it would also be great for the railway ballast to look more 3d instead of flat and for the bomb craters. You can't make everything with tesselation because there is only a small number of tesselation units on the GPU.

I think what Oleg was hinting at in one of his posts was that he was going to wait and see if this intonation of tessellation sticks around for a little longer and becomes the industry standard. There are already a few games that use it, but most of those are FPS with established graphics engines that only require a bit of work to implement. SOW is starting from scratch, so it would be a phenomenal waste of time and resources on something that might be dropped next year or DX release for something better.

If SOW is going to be the sim Oleg hopes with some real longevity I'm sure they will implement it into the next release or maybe even a patch later on. I just hope that any patching to the engine they do for future titles is backwards compatible so it can also be done to BOB and people who want to still fly over the channel can benefit as well as those over Moscow or Korea.

[Heliocon]

LOD and Tesselation are different effects. LOD requires making more then one model, tesselation does not. Tesselation is mapped onto the model, so you could use 1 model and have its polygon count gradually increase as it gets closer. LOD is not gradual it switches out a low count for a high count model at distance which creates often a "popping" effect. Also it should be noted LOD means either the game has to page the harddrive, or you store the models in your ram which takes up space, which tesselation does not.

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by speculum jockey

Heliocon!!!

Tesselation is not the magic wonder you seem to think it is. From your posts it's obvious that you don't know how it and other features common in computer gaming work.

Mind to provide evidence/what I said that shows I do not know how effects in computer gaming work? Have you ever done any 3d modeling or texturing?

Just parroting - "you think tesselation is magic" people here on the forums are sad, especially because you havent yet told me why what I am saying is in any way incorrect or even advanced your own posts about it (except for the post commenting on LOD which I addressed).