Friday 2010-12-10 Dev. video update and Discussion

[TheGrunch]

The only things I have to say echo what people have said before; the smoke in the startup video disperses too quickly and the exhaust flames should not light up the side of the aircraft in the second video.

[heywooood]

smoke disperses differently depending on what it consists of, relative atmosphere, humidity, temperature and the like - and so does the color pf the flame vary depending on the fuel, the mixture of fuel/air, the last time the engine was fired and the way it was shut down, etc...

so many variables that to deduce whether a single video render depicts the effect accurately or not is ludicrous -

ever see a stack fire? that is why at airshows you always have a guy or two with fire extinguishers standing by any warbird that is about to have its engine started.

the color and strength of the flame can be from practically invisible - to a massive yellow flame and fire. The smoke volume and color can be just as variable.

should Oleg try to cover the entire range of this effect? Of course not - the resources are better used elsewhere. Should there be some variation between night and day, cold engine vs refuel rearm restart? Probably

Will everyone be pleased with whatever these effects end up as? No

This is just another example of a developer trying to add small details that bring life and character to a simulation and having it blown out of proportion utterly by a few professional smoke and flame specialists ad alta

[Romanator21]

You know on one of the other sim forums they're having a discussion about why an HP 0/400 might still be able to fly with no wings and only 1 engine, I guess we should count ourselves lucky all we got is what colour the exhaust flames should be

True!

[Richie]

I don't think we need to search for anymore exhaust flames. That video has it all in one.

[AWL_Spinner]

Originally Posted by heywooood

This is just another example of a developer trying to add small details that bring life and character to a simulation and having it blown out of proportion utterly by a few professional smoke and flame specialists ad alta

Oleg asked for opinions, he got opinions; I think there was a fair amount of worthwhile input in the pages of this thread, some of which I'm sure Oleg found useful. He can sort the wheat from the chaff.

Did it ultimately overshoot the mark? Yes.

Was it nonetheless a good discussion? Yes.

I know I've learned a lot! Expect more of the same next week

Cheers, Spinner

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by heywooood

<snip>

You're perhaps right about the smoke (I watched the video again), but as for the second part I am referring to the lighting effect of the exhaust flames in flight in the second video and not the ambient lighting effect of a stack fire at engine startup. I find the mod effects videos a bit gimmicky in that they presumably depict a stack fire on every startup, but they're still a bit more convincing than the SoW videos so far in terms of the smoke and the exhaust flames, not that we're really sure what mixture/RPM settings are depicted in the second SoW video, which of course makes all the difference.. Not that it matters about the eyecandy IMO as long as the engine simulation in SoW is better. Still, I'd love it if Oleg & Co. took a good look at the Seafire video above and the various others posted and did their best to replicate the differences in the various engine settings/engine temperatures' effects in the sim, although not necessarily now. I'm not gonna call myself a "smoke and flame specialist", but I'd say that it's pretty much essential that at least some kind of effect exists around exhaust flames for night-fighting to be playable in the sim, which is something that I'm really interested in. Of course, anything like that could wait until we have some kind of reason to have realistic effects in this department, i.e. more appropriate flyables for night-fighting, like hopefully the Beaufighter at some point? Although the second video's cool, I think it would make it a bit too easy to spot aircraft at night compared to how difficult it's been described to be in reality.