Friday 2010-11-12 Dev. update and Discussion

[Redwan]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I've ready many accounts from pilots who have said the same thing, too.

Do you mean real pilots ?

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by Redwan

Do you mean real pilots ?

Yes; real ww2 pilots

[Redwan]

Its seems obvious that tracers are very helpfull when aiming at the ennemi. I'm surprised that it doesn't seem obvious for anywone ... who has played IL2.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by Redwan

Its seems obvious that tracers are very helpfull when aiming at the ennemi. I'm surprised that it doesn't seem obvious for anywone ... who has played IL2.

I'll have to go back and find it, but I do remember a report that some groups eliminated tracers completely and their effectiveness went up.

Think about it...on a longer deflection shot, tracers help. But when you a snuggled up on someone's six at close range, tracers don't matter at all. Flashes from hits tell you everything you need to know.

All AP and incendiary rounds would do more damage than replacing 20% of the ammo with less destructive tracer rounds.

Now I guess I have to go find the documents on groups eliminating tracers

Splitter

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Splitter

I'll have to go back and find it, but I do remember a report that some groups eliminated tracers completely and their effectiveness went up.

Think about it...on a longer deflection shot, tracers help. But when you a snuggled up on someone's six at close range, tracers don't matter at all. Flashes from hits tell you everything you need to know.

All AP and incendiary rounds would do more damage than replacing 20% of the ammo with less destructive tracer rounds.

Now I guess I have to go find the documents on groups eliminating tracers

Splitter

I remember reading the report as well. One of the USAAF fighter groups (or perhaps it was just a single squadron) decided to remove tracers from their loadouts. They found their overall scores were going up. Possibly because the enemy was not alerted by the tracers flying near their plane and possibly because it forced the pilots to not rely on tracers and instead do range/angle calculations completely in their head.

Depending on the virtual situation the lack of tracers may be or not be a useful feature. Either way I'd love to see customizable loadouts. If someone wants to not use tracers...great. If someone wants to load up a ton of tracers then ok.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I disagree, and I tested this out in Il-2 by launching a mission against a lone (friendly) heinkel in Il-2 flying the Hurricane mark 1 and then the Spit Mark V using only the .303's. Consequently, the Hurricane would spit the tracer from all 8 guns, whereas the Spit would only be shooting it from 4 (so half).
I scored more hits with the spit than I did with the Hurri in a period of 15 seconds firing short bursts. The reason? I could see my target, and where my tracer was going! I know exactly what you mean, Swiss, but many pilots chose to limit their tracer to just one or 2 guns to give a clearer view of the target when firing (even burst firing with the 8-gun planes can be hard).
As with ammo, I agree; more destructive ammo, in ever sense, just compensates for pilot error (unless the pilot is skilled enough to know when to use it).

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, but that's my experience from Il-2 and BoB2-WoV. I've ready many accounts from pilots who have said the same thing, too.

Your problem may be that you are too far away and impatient. Practice getting closer, and work on leading your target when firing

[klem]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

Why would you need to know? If you want to know for training purposes, just set-up an off-line mission where you shoot at an enemy bomber that is unarmed, and keep practicing with different ammo mixes, and see how much damage you can do. Am I missing your point (if so, what is it)?

The reason I am hoping for DeWilde (reasonably simulated) is that in IL-2 I am often thinking I am not hitting the target when my buddies are saying things like "good hits klem". For some reason many of my hits don't show to me.

Perhaps my assumption that we don't have DeWilde in IL-2 is wrong and it is my PC (AMD 3800+, 2.4GHz, 2 x 7800GTs). If there's no DeWilde, perhaps not all other ammo hits 'flash' on impact (but my buddies see them?). Perhaps it won't happen in SoW but I would be happier to know we have DeWilde

[fruitbat]

i'd much rather have DeWilde than tracer personally.

tracer makes little diff to me, i'd still hit without it (in il2) just because i've fired so much in il2 over the years, and its second nature where to aim. Seeing your rounds hit is much more useful imo, because then you know you've hit.

[WTE_Galway]

Interview with:
CAPTAIN J. J. FOSS, USMC
US medal of honor
Executive Officer, VMF-121
Bureau of Aeronautics
26 April 1943

http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Aircraft/VMF-121/

Q. What do you think of the use of tracer? Did you use your tracer for sighting?

A. Yes, sir. To start out I used the sight. After I got started, however, I just dropped my seat clear down so that I wouldn't have my neck stuck out and just barely looked over the edge. Then I used my tracer altogether, but, I had previously used the sight enough to know right where to shoot.

As for deflection shots, I'd always lead enough so that I'd never underlead. I'd always over-lead. When you overlead, you just ease forward on your stick and you can always see as far as the axis where he's going to go. You shoot in front of him and just ease forward on your stick. He flies right into it - you see your tracer work right on him. And on the tail end shot just give a burst of tracer, If it's over or under, you just go up or down.

I never wanted to sit up high enough to look at the sight. I just stayed down. To start with, I flew around looking in the sight. It works fine, as far as the sight goes; but after a while you don't need it. Is fact, I don't believe any of the boys that had been in combat a lot were using it; they all slid away down in the seat.

Q. Depended entirely on tracer?

A. Yes, sir.

[Richie]

Hey Philip what servers do you like to fly in on the Hyperlobby? I'm always in Spits VS 109s:Mods witch I do terrible in for my experience of thirteen years flying sims and tens years in IL-2. I used to do much better but I don't like my stick at all and I need to get some monitor distance glasses made...getting older lol