Friday 2010-11-12 Dev. update and Discussion

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by Necrobaron

This isn't directed at you specifically Foo'bar and I'll probably regret even making this point since it'll probably make me a "bad guy" but...

That'd be too bad if markings are not editable. In the case of WWII-era German planes specifically, it bugs me when history takes a backseat to censorship and political correctness. As much as I disagree with it, I accept that some countries like to whitewash history by making some symbols illegal. That's their perogative and I understand that Maddox Games doesn't want to open themselves up for litigation (though I think it's ludicrous to think a flight sim would be a lightning rod for Neo-Nazis). However if SoW, or whatever it's called now, is going to ship with missing aircraft markings, I'd at least like to keep the avenue open for 3rd parties to add the correct markings for those that can legally view historical correctness.

I'm certainly no Nazi sympathizer but for all the nitpicking about inconsequential details, it's surprising to me that more people aren't bugged by the lack of historically correct markings on German planes. Like it or not, the swastika was there. To me, leaving it off is tantamount to leaving the fin flashes or roundels off RAF planes, tantamount of course not in idealogy but in historical correctness.

Ok, rant over. Sorry for veering off on a controversial tangent so...flame away!

Nope, you are right. That sort of censorship is silly but those countries can do what they like. I'm a bit miffed that I have to be subject to laws that don't pertain to me.

I don't REALLY care if it is there or not, but since there is no good reason for it to be omitted then it's wrong to not have it in an otherwise historically accurate sim. The ability for a third party to add them should not be curtailed.

But maybe even having that ability is a violation of the law in some countries. I suspect that is the case and why the developer will not allow such third party skins. If that's the case then I see it as those countries imposing their moral will on other countries.

Splitter

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Necrobaron

However if SoW, or whatever it's called now, is going to ship with missing aircraft markings, I'd at least like to keep the avenue open for 3rd parties to add the correct markings for those that can legally view historical correctness.

+1 on that part. I respect the decision of countries not to show a symbol, but it is a pity if their decision impacts on others. Particularly given that the subject is those countries committing atrocities against the countries their decisions are now affecting.

Originally Posted by Splitter

The ability for a third party to add them should not be curtailed.

But maybe even having that ability is a violation of the law in some countries. I suspect that is the case and why the developer will not allow such third party skins.

A simple switch (markings on/off) may be banned, but they obviously can't ban the ability for a third party to paint skins (they could ban those third parties from making certain skins available in their country, though that can be hard to police). To ban the ability to make skins would be like banning pen and paper. There’s no reason why the publishers can’t produce the game with historical markings, but only sell censored copies in countries with a ban on Nazi symbols.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

... There’s no reason why the publishers can’t produce the game with historical markings, but only sell censored copies in countries with a ban on Nazi symbols....

Yes, but I think Oleg stated some time ago that he did not want to produce different versions of the game. It may also be that "producing" a historically accurate sim may be illegal in Russia. In other words, Russian law may prohibit even producing accurate software for export.

Yeah, a lot of people think the swastika should be banned. Ok, I get that (I don't agree but I get it). Of course, the "Red Star" and "Hammer and Sickle" are banned in some countries too (many people were oppressed and died under those symbols too).

So if we follow that line of thinking, how should Russian planes be marked? Should "you" have to play the sim without those symbols on Russian planes because another country banned them?

Nothing I have said should be construed as negative to 1C's decisions regarding the legalities. My comments are about the laws themselves and the effects they have on others.

Splitter

[Abbeville-Boy]

when the game gets hacked swastika will appear

[MD_Titus]

Originally Posted by Freycinet

Yes, why don't we ask him to spend an afternoon on entertaining you...?

get out of bed the wrong side?

Originally Posted by Splitter

Nope, you are right. That sort of censorship is silly but those countries can do what they like. I'm a bit miffed that I have to be subject to laws that don't pertain to me.

I don't REALLY care if it is there or not, but since there is no good reason for it to be omitted then it's wrong to not have it in an otherwise historically accurate sim. The ability for a third party to add them should not be curtailed.

But maybe even having that ability is a violation of the law in some countries. I suspect that is the case and why the developer will not allow such third party skins. If that's the case then I see it as those countries imposing their moral will on other countries.

Splitter

i believe that is the case. it's illegal in germany and, iirc, a newly introduced law in russia. it's the newness of this law that is part of the problem, in that no one is quite sure to what extent it is to be applied.

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

+1 on that part. I respect the decision of countries not to show a symbol, but it is a pity if their decision impacts on others. Particularly given that the subject is those countries committing atrocities against the countries their decisions are now affecting.

A simple switch (markings on/off) may be banned, but they obviously can't ban the ability for a third party to paint skins (they could ban those third parties from making certain skins available in their country, though that can be hard to police). To ban the ability to make skins would be like banning pen and paper. There’s no reason why the publishers can’t produce the game with historical markings, but only sell censored copies in countries with a ban on Nazi symbols.

again, it may be that as it is made in russia that the feature cannot eevn be in the code. that or having it in censored distribution packs would mean the law could be violated by that company's product being imported from a source that sells the uncensored version. then there's also the hot coffee thing with GTA san andreas, i think they got fined for that bit of hidden code being found and exploited.

Originally Posted by Freycinet

Dear me, the swastika debate.... yawn.

...and back to bed

Originally Posted by Abbeville-Boy

when the game gets hacked swastika will appear

may that be when the next sim is being developed.

[Freycinet]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freycinet
Yes, why don't we ask him to spend an afternoon on entertaining you...?

Originally Posted by MD_Titus

get out of bed the wrong side?

Seems to have escaped the attention of a lot of you guys when Oleg has been writing words to the effect of:

"Please you ask for too much", "You say that I promise [x] in next update but I didn't", "I need 25 hours of sleep now", etc, etc etc...

He has made it very clear that he is super-busy at the moment. He has a young kid on top of that, the implications of which any parent would understand...

Of course the spoilt teenagers in here cannot be brought to understand any of this, it is obvious now, they're just totally hopeless. They don't really care about anything but themselves, sign of their age and the times.

Of course the developers are provoked to reply when the tactic is "Hey, I'll pull stupid criticism out of my arse and then come with an inane suggestion about how to fix it". This trolling has been going on for quite a while now and is ruining the interaction with the development team.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Freycinet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freycinet
Yes, why don't we ask him to spend an afternoon on entertaining you...?



Seems to have escaped the attention of a lot of you guys when Oleg has been writing words to the effect of:

"Please you ask for too much", "You say that I promise [x] in next update but I didn't", "I need 25 hours of sleep now", etc, etc etc...

Sorry, did he ask people to stop asking questions somewhere?

He has made it very clear that he is super-busy at the moment. He has a young kid on top of that, the implications of which any parent would understand...

Again, he hasn't told or asked anybody to stop asking questions has he? He's merely letting us know how he is so we have a reason for his absence, not that he needs to tell us anything, he does after all have the ability to decide for himself much as you seem to think otherwise.

Of course the spoilt teenagers in here cannot be brought to understand any of this, it is obvious now, they're just totally hopeless. They don't really care about anything but themselves, sign of their age and the times.

Did you want your underwear in red or yellow now that they need to go on the outside for your role as Oleg's protector?

Of course the developers are provoked to reply when the tactic is "Hey, I'll pull stupid criticism out of my arse and then come with an inane suggestion about how to fix it". This trolling has been going on for quite a while now and is ruining the interaction with the development team.

What on earth was stupid or critical about asking Oleg's motivation and reasoning behind his choice of the Battle of Britain?

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Freycinet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freycinet
Yes, why don't we ask him to spend an afternoon on entertaining you...?

I know where you're coming from, although as mentioned by others some of your criticism isn’t well directed (IMO). These threads become mammoth, and it’s a wonder how Oleg has the time to wade through them. A lot of the questions put are made without much thought (eg, as you say, some questions almost suggest that the development team are beginners, which won’t have been the poster’s intention, and could have been avoided with some thought). Fortunately we are all being given a chance to ask questions, and unfortunately that inevitably leads to a lot of ill-advised posts. The fact is, it is probably easier for Oleg to ignore posts (like this one) than it is for us all to argue over which post is necessary. Like I say, I know your point, but you have now made several posts on the subject (with responses from others and now me) which are as much OT and in the way of the real discussion as the posts you’re complaining about.

It’s just not practical to moderate all the posts, so just ignore the ones you don’t like and don’t worry.

[zakkandrachoff]

i don't read so much about the tail cannon smoke.
in the british 7,6 when they fire, i can't see they. but in a 20mm cannon must be.
hope oleg thing in that.

[Blakduk]

This is looking very good indeed- the animation of the rear gunner in the He111 is excellent.
Will this slow down the aiming for the gunners compared to Il2, or was this already taken into account by a simple time delay?
Once again I am learning from Oleg's company- i didn't know about the auto-destruct of german cannon shells- they really do appear to show a difference in the trajectory of the different calibre bullets.
I'm intrigued by the Ju87 video- the reflections looks hideously complex but the framerate seems reasonably smooth considering the complexity of the background as well.
Looking at the start of the 'Dover' video the texture mapping of the Spitfires looks very stripped down. Is this an example of in-game video settings that can be toned down for lower spec machines by users themselves, or merely an earlier build?
I can hardly wait to see a video showing the weather effects!