Real World BoB Hurricane Pilot's views on SOW

[winny]

Originally Posted by swiss

Look, the last thing I want is to degrade/belittle them.

But: If you asked me about things that happened 20years ago, most of it is blurry - and black and white.
I could'nt tell for sure.
20years.

Or eyewitnesses in a criminal case, they cannot remember all details, they may think they remember, but their mind is just playing a trick on them.

That's how our brain is built, can't change this fact.

I also had a close relative who served in the 8th army as tank driver, I sure enjoyed listening to all that stories - but from a objective point of view....you can't tell if it's all true, somethings could be made up by the brain, unintentionally.

Edit:
We have a guy here in the form who interviews Russian veteran pilots.
I you read the interviews, you find several corrections by the interviewer - some facts were just plain wrong in the memories of the vets.
Do you think they "lied" intentionally"?

This isn't a story it's a tactical fact. If anyone knows what would get you killed it's a guy who watched people getting killed doing it.

EDIT: One thing nobody's mentioned is the fact that you can't get killed in SoW, by burning to death or being shot in the head, or boiled alive by glycol this discussion is completley disregarding the fact that there has to be a person involved the way the vet did it...

[swiss]

Originally Posted by winny

In fact it's a downright insult to disregard the stories in defence of a game, because they were risking thier lives.

You're right, only - no one did.

Other than that, I tend to trust paper over memories.

well, whatever.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by swiss

You're right, only - no one did.

Other than that, I tend to trust paper over memories.

well, whatever.

Not implied by me!

I think people are entitled to be passionate about their views and in some cases both sides of a discussion can be right or wrong. (or both at the same times which is confusing! )

I tend to find the paper is good at recording the big picture of an event, but there are a lot of little details that are next to impossible to record.

It's these little details and anecdotes that I find fascinating

Cheers!

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Not implied by me!

I think people are entitled to be passionate about their views and in some cases both sides of a discussion can be right or wrong. (or both at the same times which is confusing! )

I tend to find the paper is good at recording the big picture of an event, but there are a lot of little details that are next to impossible to record.

It's these little details and anecdotes that I find fascinating

Cheers!

That is exactly right, I have found that individual servicemen oftentimes have little understanding of what was going on around them in the big picture, but can recall the most minute details about their own little corner of the war.

I also also can relate to the pressure of the event impressing the memories deeply. I too can remember few things from 20 years ago, but I remember very clearly 28 years ago having my Camaro sideways at 110mph on the Highway sliding towards a bridge footing! I remember pulling off to the breakdown lane and getting out to walk off the adrenaline, much like the pilot in the Yak 50 thread. I can still taste that tinge of nickel on my tongue.
I have no Idea what the plate number on that car was, or the date of the incident, or any other myriad facts, but I can take you to the spot and describe what happened.

I guess my point is that the cold eye of the historian can only tell you a part of the story, and a necessary part, but it's the firsthand accounts that give history it's 'flavor'.

[Romanator21]

"As for the simulator I cannot pass comment for it was short and looked like a computer game which I used to play some years ago. I guess it is more like a game than a simulator. A hurricane would have been shot down long before it reached the Heinkels."

Although this could be in reference to the tail-gunners (the Hurricane was flying straight and level on their six for over a minute) it could also have something to do with the fighter escort. Just because the 109's had 20 minutes over London, didn't mean they couldn't be really nasty to the RAF. The Bf-109 was considered in many respects, the Spitfire's equal in the battle.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by Romanator21

Although this could be in reference to the tail-gunners (the Hurricane was flying straight and level on their six for over a minute) it could also have something to do with the fighter escort. Just because the 109's had 20 minutes over London, didn't mean they couldn't be really nasty to the RAF. The Bf-109 was considered in many respects, the Spitfire's equal in the battle.

To choose between either the 109 or spitfire at this stage of the war would be very hard indeed. In some respect the Spitfires had a distinct disadvantage, one being the Negative-G Cutout issue.

Where the Germans pilots had a lot more experience that the British at this stage, the British however had the Home-Ground advantage.

This is going to be one of the interesting things about the BOB Sim. How evenly matched the aircraft were!

Cheers!

[winny]

Originally Posted by swiss

You're right, only - no one did.

Other than that, I tend to trust paper over memories.

well, whatever.

Really? Even your own? I was in a car crash 20 years ago. I remember it all vividly.

As for the BoB pilot saying the hurricane would have been shot down long before it got to the Heinkels he's absolutley right. Because no matter how realistic SoW is it's still a game. If you approached like that in IL-2 you'd get killed pretty quick. In real life it's not a case of seeing how much damage your plane can take before you bail out completley uninjured. There were real bullets. It only takes one to kill the pilot.

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by winny

In fact it's a downright insult to disregard the stories in defence of a game, because they were risking thier lives.

Sorry, I have to ask:
Does this actually make any sense? I mean, when we really pause and think it through?

Just because someone risked their lives, doesn't mean that they are right. Similarly, just because someone is an eyewitness it doesn't mean that they are right (it just means that they probably are). It is worth respecting people for what they did and went through. But this shouldn't translate into a completely unquestioning attitude, where any other thoughts are considered sacrilegious.

It is disturbingly like not questioning politicians on the value of a war because soldiers are fighting in it (albeit 10000 times less important).

I really, truly, liked your point about the fact that no one dies in SoW. I think it is incisive and really brings out the heart of the subject.