Pony talk

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by JtD

Same there, this is what gives a D a _slightly_ smaller stability. It's a known bug.

If it really affects the FM shouldn't the D model then turn better and be more agile? I don't think it's that simple to say "this is a bug which makes the plane worse". In fact, if it would really affect the FM it might be a bug that compensates the plane only real weakness, no?

[JtD]

Apply full rudder and check if you can measure a difference between the B and the D. This is where the slightly reduced length would show. It has no effect on turning.

[Blackdog_kt]

Wouldn't it also apply in banking turns?

If the plane is banked and the stick pulled, the elevators are "working" on the same plane of motion that the rudder affects when the wings are level (the plane that's parallel to the horizon), so wouldn't it exhibit a similar effect?

[Tempest123]

This ***could*** explain why total blackouts occur very suddenly in the D model, too much elevator for a shorter fuselage. This is only if the length bug is present in the FM though.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Tempest123

This ***could*** explain why total blackouts occur very suddenly in the D model, too much elevator for a shorter fuselage. This is only if the length bug is present in the FM though.

I think the blackout happens suddenly because the Mustang (and Tempest) can pull very hard very quickly and cause a blackout. Most other fighter types have an ineffective elevator at those speeds so the ability to suddenly pull isn't there.

In some ways it's easier to hold back on the stick in the Bf109K-4 as it sails towards the ground not doing much of anything than it is in a Tempest to pull back hard and both blackout the pilot and rip the wings off

[Tempest123]

Originally Posted by IceFire

I think the blackout happens suddenly because the Mustang (and Tempest) can pull very hard very quickly and cause a blackout. Most other fighter types have an ineffective elevator at those speeds so the ability to suddenly pull isn't there.

In some ways it's easier to hold back on the stick in the Bf109K-4 as it sails towards the ground not doing much of anything than it is in a Tempest to pull back hard and both blackout the pilot and rip the wings off

This is true, and I'd rather have the second option than the first one, at least the screen would be black for 20 seconds in the air, instead of forever as I plowed into the ground

Just flew some very successful A to A combats in the P-51D, def. a great ship, so if there is a length bug in the FM it's not holding the plane back too much. As for a concrete way of testing between models I can't think of one that isn't affected by many other factors other than around 1 foot of fuselage. If it is a simple matter of correcting a clearly wrong number in a FM file than I hope it is addressed, but I have no idea how the FM's are made for Il2.

I think Oleg said years ago in response to a FM debate that the problem was between the guy's computer and his chair So I'll stop beating this dead horse (pony).

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Tempest123

Just flew some very successful A to A combats in the P-51D, def. a great ship, so if there is a length bug in the FM it's not holding the plane back too much. As for a concrete way of testing between models I can't think of one that isn't affected by many other factors other than around 1 foot of fuselage. If it is a simple matter of correcting a clearly wrong number in a FM file than I hope it is addressed, but I have no idea how the FM's are made for Il2.

It's also possible the fuselage data was deliberately "tweaked" to eliminate some other issue with the p51d. No way of knowing.

I would be inclined to pass the evidence about the incorrect fuselage length on to TD and leave it to them to fiddle with.