Friday 2010-10-15 Dev. update and Discussion

[Flutter]

Hi Oleg,
I posted the comment below this weekend, and assume it got lost in the backlog. I do not need an answer, but would appreciate it if you considered doing something like it or better in a patch / future release (fear it may be too late for launch).
Others have commented, and I believe rightly, that fields of the era did not show wide tracks from tractors. Reducing or removing these would also reduce the "I plowed, and then there came a railroad" effect.

Aerodynamically: Will ground effect be modeled? I have not been able to detect it in IL2, and it definitely should be there. The effect was discovered in WW2 by shot up bomber crews who miraculously stopped sinking when reaching wave-top altitudes. Managing to get over the white cliffs could be difficult, but I believe few cared.

Finally: Will aircraft tow a wingtip vortex field and a prop-wash field? These could easily be modeled using time-dampening potential flow elements (adapted panel method), and would also add substantially to the immersion for aircraft flying close to one another.

Flutter

Originally Posted by Flutter

Hi Oleg, thank you for posting both updates and answers.

As far as I can see, the current ground texture system uses a network of borderlines that look organic but repeat fairly often over the terrain. The area within one set of borderlines is then filled with an appropriate texture (golf course / field a / field b / field c / farm / forest / village / city / industry ) and with the appropriate models (vegetation, buildings etc). Then the borders themselves are applied, these being hedges, paths, roads etc. For a quasi procedural texture system, I believe this is one of the best solutions available, and your results look overall very nice. However, the system does not look too good when such a field is cut by a railroad. Screenshot No. 3 illustrates my point. The REAL geometry (railroad lines, big highways) does fit badly into the texture when compared to the basic borderlines. The only solution I can imagine would be to treat such a road / railway line as yet another borderline, and apply different textures to the different segments that have been divided by this geometry. It would not be perfect, but it could be coded, and it would make these roads and railways fit better into the landskape, making them both blend better into it and be more visible in that they change the landscape around them.
The mockup picture below illustrates my point.
Flutter

[AndyJWest]

Will ground effect be modeled? I have not been able to detect it in IL2, and it definitely should be there.

Actually, it is modelled in IL-2, though it is subtle, and perhaps not modelled entirely accurately. There was a long discussion of this on the Ubi forums: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...3121062458/p/1

[Flutter]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Actually, it is modelled in IL-2, though it is subtle, and perhaps not modelled entirely accurately. There was a long discussion of this on the Ubi forums: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...3121062458/p/1

Thnx Andy, That's indeed a more subtle than I would expect it to be. I shal go and look for it myself (Tend to lose an engine or ten when I go flying).

[SlipBall]

(quote)Flutter
Others have commented, and I believe rightly, that fields of the era did not show wide tracks from tractors.


I'm not sure why you think a field with wide rows indicate a tractor passed over the field. Some crops demand a greater distance from one another, and so "wide"could have been made using a horse back then. One thing though, is that most farm field rows are plowed running north/south to allow for maximum sunlight exposure, east/west at times to control erosion.

[Sutts]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

(quote)Flutter
Others have commented, and I believe rightly, that fields of the era did not show wide tracks from tractors.


I'm not sure why you think a field with wide rows indicate a tractor passed over the field. Some crops demand a greater distance from one another, and so "wide"could have been made using a horse back then. One thing though, is that most farm field rows are plowed running north/south to allow for maximum sunlight exposure, east/west at times to control erosion.

Not talking about plowed fields here SlipBall. Please look again at the image linked here.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...9&d=1287325120

Those lines are 100% modern day tractor tramlines for the application of sprays and fertilisers without damaging the developing crop. I should know...I've spent hundreds of hours making them!

I've noticed that the majority of textures associated with cereal crops shown so far have been incorrectly given tramlines.

The following link provides all the details you need to know including how they are produced. If you scroll down you'll notice the second to last photo matches what we see in the SoW fields. This is all modern day agricultural practice.

http://www.ukagriculture.com/crops/tramlines.cfm

Interestingly, I've just noticed this quote in the article text:

"Tramlines became widespread in their use in the agricultural revolution of the 1950s and 60s. Tramlines are of vital importance in the modern farming environment because they prevent overlapping applications of fertiliser and pesticide and because they allow spot or selective treatments to be carried out accurately. Nowadays tramlines can be seen throughout most of the western world and are often inaccurately present in films about the past, watch Gladiator carefully next time!"


Ploughed fields will contain furrow lines and these will be identical whether produced by a horse or tractor drawn plough. Cut hay and other crops may also appear in roughly even lines. It is the tramlines only that is being debated here.

[furbs]

Careful Sutts, dont point out anything that might be slighty not correct, even if you have spent 100s hours making them yourself.

[Sutts]

Originally Posted by furbs

Careful Sutts, dont point out anything that might be slighty not correct, even if you have spent 100s hours making them yourself.

Yeah, not a big deal in the great scheme of things....but easily fixed in a future release hopefully. I think many of these textures are shared.

[Insuber]

So we have here:

- experts of WWII fields
- experts of BOB country colors
- experts of RAF flight goggles
- experts of flight suits
- experts of clouds (not so many thou ... )
- experts of 110 antennas
- experts of locomotives
- ... I can continue ...

Chapeau ... personally I just want an honest combat flight simulation and I feel so lonely ! Hey anyone else out there like me ?

;D

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Sutts

Not talking about plowed fields here SlipBall. Please look again at the image attached to this post. Those lines are 100% modern day tractor tramlines for the application of sprays and fertilisers without damaging the developing crop. I should know...I've spent hundreds of hours making them!

I've noticed that the majority of textures associated with cereal crops shown so far have been incorrectly given tramlines.

The following link provides all the details you need to know including how they are produced. If you scroll down you'll notice the second to last photo matches what we see in the SoW fields. This is all modern day agricultural practice.

http://www.ukagriculture.com/crops/tramlines.cfm

Interestingly, I've just noticed this quote in the article text:

"Tramlines became widespread in their use in the agricultural revolution of the 1950s and 60s. Tramlines are of vital importance in the modern farming environment because they prevent overlapping applications of fertiliser and pesticide and because they allow spot or selective treatments to be carried out accurately. Nowadays tramlines can be seen throughout most of the western world and are often inaccurately present in films about the past, watch Gladiator carefully next time!"


Ploughed fields will contain furrow lines and these will be identical whether produced by a horse or tractor drawn plough. Cut hay and other crops may also appear in roughly even lines. It is the tramlines only that is being debated here.

OK...I'm not knowledged enough on this subject, to argue any points you made in your post.

[Sutts]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

OK...I'm not knowledged enough on this subject, to argue any points you made in your post.

Fair enough but please look at the article all the same, the evidence is all there.