Friday 2010-10-08 Dev. update and Discussion

[major_setback]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

I haven't seen the video above because I choose not to install flash.

I have to agree with the last, archery targets are straw, with a canvas front, as in the lower photo above, besides being better for the arrows, that sort of target is more durable. Durability is why those wooden targets probably aren't for aircraft guns either, after being hit by a 100 round burst, they'd be matchwood. I don't know what they're for, I think rifle targets are paper, maybe the wooden ones are for airgun darts? Supposing they are targets at all, which the variation of the banding makes perhaps unlikely.

Get Flash, it will save me having to do screencaptures!

Thanks Richie for the video! It is obviously a training target looking at that footage.

The video shows German airmen in a pillbox witnessing target practice. It all looks staged, but is no doubt an authentic recreation of a training method. I think it is the cannon on a bf109 that is being used for this practice.

Interesting tracers from the cannon! Photographed by a stationary camera on the ground.

[JVM]

I believe the "aircraft" and even the "shoot" part are done with models and movie FX (of the time): the impacts do not look right, but the worst is the last passage of the 109: with this attitude, it should have been crashing two frames later....If you watch the video you will see it with the same attitude flying almost level!

So I would not put too much faith into the tracer behaviour...

JV

[major_setback]

Originally Posted by JVM

I believe the "aircraft" and even the "shoot" part are doen with maquettes and movie FX (of the time): the impacts do not look right, but the worst is the last passage of the 109: with this attitude, it should have been crashing two frames later....If you watch the video you will see it with the same attitude flying almost level!

So I would not put too much faith into the tracer behaviour...

JV

I agree something doesn't look quite right. Movement of the plane does look strange in that last passing shot. It is staged, and edited, and shot in the studio (cockpit shots) to some extent. But the main points of the film remain - it depicts target practice with painted targets, and the tracers look authentic, though I agree they may be 'blanks'.

[Qpassa]

well, I am waiting for 15

[jippy13]

Hi Oleg,
I may be displeasing the purists, but I d like to see in Bob the following feature:
a mode (usefull for rookies) that would allow the pilot shooting on a target to see (readable information on the screen), in real-time, technical information about the dammage caused by his shoot . For example, rudder hit - 70% destroyed etc., left wing hit 2% dammaged

I think this kind of functionnality could help rookies to improve their skill in dogfight.

Another point, a detailed statistic chart at the end of the mission would be great to evaluate your action.

Thanks for reading

[Blackdog_kt]

I don't know if it would be that useful to provide system-by-system updates on the health of each component of each enemy aircraft for a simple reason...what happens when you need to let go of that guy and start working on another one?

Unless there's some kind of feature that mimics space combat games, where an in-cockpit screen shows you individual component status as you cycle through the enemy targets, we don't really have a way to collect and combine such information in an easy to present manner. That is, unless we add an MFD screen but that would look totally out of place in a WW2 setting.

Another issue is that becoming too obsessed with the "health" stats on each plane's components might lead to the development of bad habits instead of teaching good ones: over-fixating on the target because if you switch to another one you lose the amount of information you had about the previous one's systems health, an artificial feeling of fighting where everything seems to be governed by invisible health bars, etc. I guess there are some invisible health bars in every type of game, even simulators, but it makes for a more immersive experience if i don't see them, as i'm getting the illusion that things are happening dynamically with a bit of a random element and not in a fixed way, for example "pepper his rudder with a 2 second burst and off it goes, every single time".

I think what would matter most is teaching people the importance of concepts like tracking shots versus snapshots and when to choose them depending on your armament and the enemy aircraft's structural strength, angle-off and stuff like that. If all the rookie cares about is watching "target left wing structural integrity: 50%" messages, then all they will do is focus on tracking shots in an effort to see the invisible health bar count down. Then, they are effectively shepherded into a way of training that is too one dimensional for their own good, they go online and get owned repeatedly by a boom and zoomer using snapshots because they never had to bother with a different fighting style up to that point.

Don't get me wrong, i fly 90% difficulty offline (externals on) and full switch online but i still want to see as many options as possible that will make it easier for a rookie to pick up the simulator and get to grips with it. Your idea is not bad for someone who wants to use relaxed difficulty settings, but i think it needs some refinement to be even more useful. I hope i'm not coming off as an aggresive, antagonistic know-it-all wannabe by saying this, just giving my honest personal opinion about it. Cheers

[Jimko]

Since the topic of goggles and oxygen masks came up earlier in this thread, I'd like to ask a question.

I didn't notice until I studied the picture of Sanford Tuck in the Hurricane, but what is the additional attachment to his goggles...a type of sunglasses that are attached to the goggles? I've never noticed this before.

(You can plainly see his oxygen mask hanging forward from his helmet 'loom' assembly and I like the ever-present mask as it usually contained the radio xmtr, as someone pointed out earlier. Pilots would hold the mask over their faces to talk even if they weren't wearing it full time. The mask and bulk of the Mae West contribute to the pilot 'look', IMO.)

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by jippy13

Hi Oleg,
I may be displeasing the purists, but I d like to see in Bob the following feature:
a mode (usefull for rookies) that would allow the pilot shooting on a target to see (readable information on the screen), in real-time, technical information about the dammage caused by his shoot . For example, rudder hit - 70% destroyed etc., left wing hit 2% dammaged

I think this kind of functionnality could help rookies to improve their skill in dogfight.

Another point, a detailed statistic chart at the end of the mission would be great to evaluate your action.

Thanks for reading

+1

[robtek]

Originally Posted by jippy13

Hi Oleg,
I may be displeasing the purists, but I d like to see in Bob the following feature:
a mode (usefull for rookies) that would allow the pilot shooting on a target to see (readable information on the screen), in real-time, technical information about the dammage caused by his shoot . For example, rudder hit - 70% destroyed etc., left wing hit 2% dammaged

I think this kind of functionnality could help rookies to improve their skill in dogfight.

Another point, a detailed statistic chart at the end of the mission would be great to evaluate your action.

Thanks for reading

I think thats a feature for fps and it's much too arcadish for MY taste.
It might be interesting in training, but then it would be very hard to hit always the same parts to get the same results, so it seems rather pointless for me.
We should remember that we don't have hit-boxes for a wing or the fuselage but a lot of really small hit-boxes for all the sub-systems and parts.
One would get messages like:
Left wing, Spar 3, 4 and 6 hit; lost 50% stability;
Hydraulic Line left gear holed, 100% pressure lost;
Engine hit, spark-plugs 12 and 13 100% damaged, Power loss 12%;....
For the training it would be enough to show the hits with markers like in IL2

my thoughts

[Insuber]

? Just simple real time gunnery statistics, as CFS had some 15 years ago (upper-right corner with components hit & hit %) ... great for gunnery practice. Remember that new users are often scared and repelled by the steep learning curve of combat flight sims.