Nuklear bomb

[Hunden]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

I do have to worry about the morality and sanity of people that want to drop nuclear weapons on civilian targets in a game "for fun".

It reminds me of the controversy a few years back where some people wanted horses and other animals included in IL2 so they could fly around and shoot at them.

All I can say is I sincerely hope these same people never get a position of power in the Military or a national Government.

Where are you people from? There aren't any real people [civilians] in this simulation. So you can't drop a pretend bomb on a pretend city but its ok to shoot down a pretend aircraft and watch the pretend pilot burn to death. I can't get away from you flaming liberals even in a war simulator. Don't you have something to protest somewhere. Cheers

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Hunden

Where are you people from? There aren't any real people [civilians] in this simulation. So you can't drop a pretend bomb on a pretend city but its ok to shoot down a pretend aircraft and watch the pretend pilot burn to death. I can't get away from you flaming liberals even in a war simulator. Don't you have something to protest somewhere. Cheers

No, if you really get off on making big explosions and killing things ( and presumably also flying weird non historical Nazi UFO's and boasting about how elite you are online ) you are not playing a simulation you are just playing Quake/Halo in 3D. Or maybe Microsoft Explosion Simulator

There is no facility in the game to actual fight a tactical campaign using nuclear weapons. If there was then people wouldn't object so much, the nukes would have a point and using them effectively will be a challenge. Nor are their any historically accurate nuclear weapons, the modded nukes just make a bigger bang.

Therefore the only point in including nuclear weapons in the game seems to be so immature prats can get their rocks off imagining blowing stuff up like they see in the movies.


... and as far as Politics goes, this whole US fascination with the liberal/hippy versus fascist/christian/patriot argument that they like to bore the rest of the world with on forums is stupid ... from an outside perspective its easy to see their is no difference they are all flavors of the same species "American Politician" . Don't get uptight about politics it will just give you heartburn.

Originally Posted by Splitter

Julian: It is one of those misguided things about the war. Both sides thought, at times, that bombing civilians would would weaken their resolve and weaken the enemy's will to make war. I don't think that was ever successful.

Bombing industries was obviously a legitimate exercise and just as obviously worked. The problem was accuracy even when they were going after industrial targets. Factories were close to populations and a LOT of bombs missed. They pretty much had to carpet bomb areas to take out their targets. As usual, civilians paid a heavy price.

Yep the original purpose of the allied strategic bombing on Germany (as proposed by Churchill) was to destroy the moral of the German people. Once it became clear it was not working and if anything increasing German resolve to fight on, the emphasize changed to bombing industry communications and transport to weaken German industry and the war effort. the second latter approach was more costly but much more effective.

A more recent example of the ineffectiveness of general bombing is the costly and totally ineffectual 7th Air Force Operation Rolling Thunder conducted between March 1965 and November 1968.

[AndyJWest]

...the only point in including nuclear weapons in the game seems to be so immature prats can get their rocks off imagining blowing stuff up.

Which is where I entered this discussion, with some halfwit saying it would be 'cool'. I didn't expect a mature debate, and in a way I'm surprised that it has been as rational as it has. Nobody seems to have changed their position though, so ultimately it achieved little. Or maybe it has. At least some visitors to the forum might realise we aren't all so engrossed in out fantasy world that relaity passes us by...

You're right about US 'politics' too, Galway - to outsiders the whole thing seems infantile. Not that it is much better elsewhere.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

You're right about US 'politics' too, Galway - to outsiders the whole thing seems infantile. Not that it is much better elsewhere.

haha ... well our Australian politics has gone beyond infantile to the point of being a hilarious Monty Python spoof at the moment. I do not think Britain is doing much better from what I hear. i think Aussies at present would accept a sheep as leader if it got the politicians (of all persuasions) off the television.

[AndyJWest]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

haha ... well our Australian politics has gone beyond infantile to the point of being a hilarious Monty Python spoof at the moment. I do not think Britain is doing much better from what I hear. i think Aussies at present would accept a sheep as leader if it got the politicians (of all persuasions) off the television.

Well, I didn't like to say, but I've got the impression that it was getting a little farcical down under. And yes, UK politics is laughable too. Or it would be if these clowns didn't have so much power - including in our case, access to nuclear weapons, though with the way the economy is going, we'll probably be flogging these off to the Chinese in a few years...

[Hunden]

[QUOTE=WTE_Galway;176801


Therefore the only point in including nuclear weapons in the game seems to be so immature prats can get their rocks off imagining blowing stuff up like they see in the movies.

I could take the nuke or leave it thats not my point. Are you trying to tell me you don't like blowing things up, if you didn't you would be playing another simulator that had no guns or bombs what so ever. So man up and admit what every man likes to do, BLOW things up. For Gods sake were men we just can't do it in real life anymore without getting arrested.
[QUOTE=WTE_Galway]
... and as far as Politics goes, this whole US fascination with the liberal/hippy versus fascist/christian/patriot argument that they like to bore the rest of the world with on forums is stupid ... from an outside perspective its easy to see their is no difference they are all flavors of the same species "American Politician" . Don't get uptight about politics it will just give you heartbu

You being a liberal has nothing to do with politics its simply who you are accept it and be happy with it. I'm simply saying I can't escape your war protesting type even in a war simulator and this is a war simulator.

[AndyJWest]

...this is a war simulator

Actually it isn't. This is an internet forum. The forum is real, even if the topic under discussion is a simulation. Which is why describing the use of nuclear weapons as 'cool' is going to be controversial. While you play IL-2 you may be in a fantasy world, but as soon as you start discussing it with others, you are in reality. If you don't understand the distinction, you should probably find another hobby.

[Hunden]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Actually it isn't. This is an internet forum. The forum is real, even if the topic under discussion is a simulation. Which is why describing the use of nuclear weapons as 'cool' is going to be controversial. While you play IL-2 you may be in a fantasy world, but as soon as you start discussing it with others, you are in reality. If you don't understand the distinction, you should probably find another hobby.

I think your lost in your thinking, we would not actualy be using any nuclear weapons, Im not sure if you knew that or not. The reality is we do not have access to real nuclear weapons. So your disscussion with others in your real world about the use of nuclear weapons in a simulator is not based in reality. Hate to be the one to inform you of that. I feel like I just told my kids the truth about santa. One more thing discussing a fantasy does not make it a reality unless you act upon it. Does anyone have a nuke here , I didnt think so. So yes we are all in our little fantasy world. Maybe you need to get out more.

[AndyJWest]

So yes we are all in our little fantasy world.

Speak for yourself.

In case you hadn't noticed, a considerable proportion of the postings in this thread have been about reality, and about the reasoning behind the actual use of nuclear weapons. Most of the contributors seem able to understand why 'fantasy' and 'reality' cannot be so easily separated. If you can't, I'd suggest that maybe you need to get educated more.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Speak for yourself.

In case you hadn't noticed, a considerable proportion of the postings in this thread have been about reality, and about the reasoning behind the actual use of nuclear weapons. Most of the contributors seem able to understand why 'fantasy' and 'reality' cannot be so easily separated. If you can't, I'd suggest that maybe you need to get educated more.

Eh, enough bickering, gents. Whaddya think?

One thing that has not been answered is what the Allies (US in this case) should have done instead of dropping the bomb. This goes out to the people who think it was not needed.

It's one thing to think that nukes are bad, it's another to propose an alternative that would accomplish the same end to the war with fewer deaths.

BTW, what everyone danced around in this thread was the question of whether dropping the bomb was right and moral. The answer to that question is the most important and ties into the question about alternatives.

Splitter