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IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator.

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  #1  
Old 08-22-2010, 03:17 PM
rakinroll rakinroll is offline
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[QUOTE=Splitter;176260]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger View Post
Those bombs saved Allied soldier's lives ...
Splitter
Oh my god...
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:22 PM
Splitter Splitter is offline
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Oh my god... [/QUOTE]

Please elaborate.

Splitter
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:30 PM
rakinroll rakinroll is offline
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It is open enough i think.
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:36 PM
Splitter Splitter is offline
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Not really.

Should we take that to mean that you think it was unnecessary and did not, in fact, ultimately save lives on both sides?

Splitter
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Old 08-22-2010, 04:53 PM
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Friendly_flyer Friendly_flyer is offline
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1) There were no atomic bombs in 1940

2) Even if it were, or if the SoW:BoB had been a 1945 Pacific sim, I still would not want an atomic bomb included. I don't want a long, boring, unopposed and uneventful mission to destroy a whole city and kill thousands, I want to do daring raids against agaist pinpoint targets.

Let's face it: From a combat flight sim point of view the two atomic bomb missions were extraordinarily boring. They flew too high for being in any real danger from flack or fighters. The aiming of the bombs weren't really that important (though the Hiroshima bomb aimer did a very good job). The flying and navigation was nothing special. The only interesting aspect of the two missions is the immense destructive power of the bombs.

I play this game to fly and occasionally shoot. If I wanted to play God, I'll fire up my old Black & White.
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Last edited by Friendly_flyer; 08-22-2010 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:03 PM
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Azimech Azimech is offline
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According to Noam Chomsky, the soviets were already involved in peace talks with the japanese and Truman ordered to drop the bombs anyway, sort of warning the USSR that the USA really had the bomb as part of political leverage.

Yes the japanese armies have done unspeakable atrocities to civilians and captured military personnel but that would've never justified to use two of the worst machines of suffering to punish the japanese people who were just like the german people hostages of their own government.

Dropping them are two of humanity's biggest mistakes ever. Actually all bombing of civilians in any case is dreadful and unethical like all wars are. The fact that I fly a military flight sim is because of the fun fighting other planes. I never bomb cities.

Don't forget Oppenheimer's words: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:31 PM
rakinroll rakinroll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azimech View Post
According to Noam Chomsky, the soviets were already involved in peace talks with the japanese and Truman ordered to drop the bombs anyway, sort of warning the USSR that the USA really had the bomb as part of political leverage.

Yes the japanese armies have done unspeakable atrocities to civilians and captured military personnel but that would've never justified to use two of the worst machines of suffering to punish the japanese people who were just like the german people hostages of their own government.

Dropping them are two of humanity's biggest mistakes ever. Actually all bombing of civilians in any case is dreadful and unethical like all wars are. The fact that I fly a military flight sim is because of the fun fighting other planes. I never bomb cities.

Don't forget Oppenheimer's words: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."
Well said.
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:59 PM
Splitter Splitter is offline
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"Noam Chomsky". Well, there ya go. He pretty much hates the US.

Just think these few questions:

If the Japanese were ready to capitulate, why did they not surrender after the first bomb was dropped?
If they (or the Nazis) had developed the bomb, would they have used it?
Were the Japanese training civilians, including women and children, to resist invasion forces?
Was the Japanese government indoctrinating its' people as to the brutal treatment they would receive from American soldiers leading many (including women and children) to kill themselves and their families on Okinawa?
What other options did the Allies have?
How many lives would a siege (a blockade) have cost the Japanese? How long would it have taken? Would it have been better to starve the entire population?
In an invasion, how many lives would have been lost on both sides?
If the Empire of Japan had been allowed to remain in existence, would they have remained peaceful?


Would I have wanted to be in the President's shoes and make the call to drop the bomb? No, I am sure that was heart wrenching. Would I fly any simulated mission in a simulated Enola Gay? No.

However, I really think dropping those bombs was the best choice that could have been made at the time with the information on hand.

I know it's cool to hate the US these days, but one has to dig deeper than what "feels good" and see the accompanying realities.

Splitter
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