Friday 2010-02-25 Development update:Interview by Grégory Lemasson/Discussion Thread

[ECV56_Lancelot]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

In real aircraft, trims only changes the forces on the stick, allowing the pilot to push the stick to a new position (required for flying straight) and keep it there without force...

I´m at work and can´t search properly for a good source to confirm what i´m stating, but i think you are mistaken. It might be true what you say with aircrafts where the stick does not have direct physical connection to the control surface, but have connection to an artificial force system. But on WW2 aircraft, and modern light airplanes, where the stick have´s direct physical connection with the control surface, using the trim does imply moving the control surface, and by doing this, you are releived of the effort of continously have to apply force over the stick.
The trim could work by moving the control surface directly, or moving a tab that moves corespondly the control surface, but triming the aircraft does imply that the control suface is moved.

[MikkOwl]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

Gagboy, that game sounds..umm..I rather not write down those flashes of my imagination here That other game sounded very interesting, maybe a version of 2010 could be made?! Duke Nukem became history so now..

MikkOwl. Your ideas are good, expecially the ones with the sticks. But indicators on screen..well..maybe for testing etc. In real aircraft you can see from the trim wheel or and indicator near it the position of your trim. This in most planes. And with SoW having very detailed cockpits, from we have seen so far, this pose no problem to actually look at your trim wheel for the indication. Spitfire has this trim position Up/down in the dashboard etc.

Well that settles it. Oleg has no excuse for not permitting off-set adjustment of trims. The problem for him to tackle is instead: "are my SoW models awesome enough for the task? ". And, it is optional after all. If anyone doesn't want to use it they don't have to. But anyone can benefit a lot from it with trimming, as it makes our poor little devices so much less twitchy and crazy sensitive with trimming in game. And if we reduced range to make it less twitchy, we can even get increased range again by using off-set trims (positioning the range at the 'right part of the trim' makes sure no part of axis is wasted).

Originally Posted by ECV56_Lancelot

I´m at work and can´t search properly for a good source to confirm what i´m stating, but i think you are mistaken. It might be true what you say with aircrafts where the stick does not have direct phisical connection to the control surface, but connection to an artificial force system. But on WW2 aircraft, and modern light airplanes, where the stick have´s direct physical connection with the control surface, using the trim does imply moving the control surface, and by doing this, you are releive of the effort of contnously have to apply force over the stick.
The trim could work by moving the control surface directly, or moving a tab the moves corespondly the control surface, but triming the aircraft does imply that the control suface is moved.

Well yes, I know about how trim tabs work, and that only describes the mechanism behind the result: as far as the control surface and stick goes, only the forces acting on the control column changes. If stick is kept centered and trim tabs are moved, nothing at all happens, the control surface does not move (only that tiny tab).

I don't know how non-trim tab aircraft function, but I am not really aware of any WW2 combat aircraft having that sort of trim. If you know of any I would be happy to read up on them.

If they move the whole surface directly, completely independant on the control column, then yes, they should be like now (just far smaller range of movement). But I'm fairly sure they are by far the exception, and that nearly all aircraft are using trim tabs.

[ECV56_Lancelot]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

If stick is kept centered and trim tabs are moved, nothing at all happens, the control surface does not move (only that tiny tab).

You are correct, and now i think understand the problem you are refering. The problem comes of what happens inside the sim whem we use trim, and what happens to our joystick in the real world.
I think IL-2 hadles well trim, because when you aply trim, inside the sim the virtual control surface moves, as the virtual stick. But meanwhile on the real joystick without any force feedback, you have to release the joystick so you are not adding more command that the needed and giveng by the trim, and you get the result of not having to push you joystick anymore (if its pitch trimming, for example).
But how can you make that while your real joystick is on its center position, when you apply trim, nothing must happen. You cant, because on the virtual world of the sim you are moving the tab and the control surface, and also the virtual stick.

At least that we use a force feedback joystick that when you move the trim on the sim and at the same time the real joystick chage position accordingly, i don´t see how the problem can be solved. The problem is that our joystick do not move according to the virtual stick, thay go to the center position, instead of staying on the trimmed position.

[MikkOwl]

Originally Posted by ECV56_Lancelot

You are correct, and now i think understand the problem you are refering. The problem comes of what happens inside the sim whem we use trim, and what happens to our joystick in the real world.
I think IL-2 hadles well trim, because when you aply trim, inside the sim the virtual control surface moves, as the virtual stick. But meanwhile on the real joystick without any force feedback, you have to release the joystick so you are not adding more command that the needed and giveng by the trim, and you get the result of not having to push you joystick anymore (if its pitch trimming, for example).
But how can you make that while your real joystick is on its center position, when you apply trim, nothing must happen. You cant, because on the virtual world of the sim you are moving the tab and the control surface, and also the virtual stick.

At least that we use a force feedback joystick that when you move the trim on the sim and at the same time the real joystick chage position accordingly, i don´t see how the problem can be solved. The problem is that our joystick do not move according to the virtual stick, thay go to the center position, instead of staying on the trimmed position.

I don't see any reason why Storm of War would have to use IL-2's trim and joystick system. If a force feedback stick is detected and we choose to use this real-trim behaviour, then the control column in the simulator will move only from movement of the joystick. Trims will change the force feedback only (and permit the control column to move more when controls start to freeze up at high speed, just like in IL-2).