what would dogfights be like now if jets and missiles had not been invented

[InfiniteStates]

lulwhat?

WTF has the armament on the target plane got to do with the aggressor's chance of leading it?

[SgtPappy]

All Panzer really said was that a modern jet could never really win a dogfight with a prop plane. He didn't say that the prop plane would win that said dogfight.

Simply, the turn rates of modern jets are far better than that of prop planes, but prop planes physically turn in such a tiny radius that it would be nigh impossible for a jet to touch a say a P-51 in a turning dogfight.

Of course though, air-air battles aren't won by just turning (which really is the definition of a digfight - a turning and spiralling battle). It's won by energy states. The pilot with more energy - potential (altitude) or kinetic (speed) or a combo of both - is the one to dictate the fight. And, if anything, the pilot who dictates when to engage/disengage is the likliest to win the fight.

Hence, there should be no insinuation that a Spitfire will destroy an F-22. The F-22 will destroy a Spitfire with a 20mm, IF and only if the Raptor can hit the the Spitfire. Of course, the lead necessary for a Spitfire to hit a Raptor flying even the smallest deviation from the Spitfire's flight path vector is so huge because of the Rap's speed.

[Raw Kryptonite]

Since when is a dogfight just about turning? It's about close engagement, but that includes anything, not just turning.
Jets took over long before missiles. To say just any prop plane would win the dogfight it to remain oblivious to history. I can't believe anyone here would say such a thing. LOL

All of this is as if modern dogfights would be very relevant anyway, regardless of propulsion. Knocking dedicated fighters planes out of the sky with other dedicated fighter planes, just for the sake of doing it, doesn't accomplish that much. That's why bombers rule the day and that's pretty much what it's all about. Fighters are and would be support aircraft for other vessels (sea, air, land), not the main weapon.


Space Above and Beyond was mid 90's. Makes a good addition to any sci fi lover's dvd collection. Nice tie in! That's exactly what I picture.