Title update update

[kozzm0]

Originally Posted by Deascendent

but to say that the p-51 wasn't a dogfighter is the most ignorant statement I've read on here, look at the kills on record, look at it's specs, and read the accounts of ace p51 pilots, dumb American basher.

I thought I might get a fanboy flame... the p51 enjoyed heavy numerical superiority from the time it entered service, and it was usually used in the escort role, which is a high-speed running battle, NOT an anchored dogfight.

The p51's specs show its wing loading in the high 30's, whereas the spit's loading is in the low 20's. Its thrust to weight ratio is only 0.18 hp/lb. It was fast because of other factors like low drag.

Since you apparently respect only Americans, here's what Robert Shaw the Navy expert says about low wing loading:

"The low-wing-loaded fighter's greatest performance advantages are
assumed to be good instantaneous turn performance, slow minimum
speed, and a tight sustained turn radius. In some cases this aircraft also
might have a significant sustained-turn-rate advantage. Its weaknesses
include inferior climb and acceleration performance under low-G condi-
tions, and slower "top-end" speed."

Why could the p51 fight German fighters in anchored fights? Because the bf109's wing loading was also in the high 30's, and the fw190 was even higher. The fights were mostly at high speed, where all 3 planes maneuvered best. Though none were great low-speed turners, that didn't matter if they were fighting each other at low speed since they all shared the same disadvantage. The German planes did usually have a higher t/w ratio which was incentive for them to keep the fights faster.

If a p51 were to get itself into a descending, decelerating battle with a spitfire, hurricane, zero or la-5, one on one, it would be at a major disadvantage. It could BnZ them, but that's not a dogfight. 2 p51's vs 1 spitfire, different story. A 2 to 1 advantage is huge for any kind of plane.

also if the success of the pilots is what makes a plane a great dogfighter, you'd have to call the bf109 the greatest dogfighter ever since the top 100 aces of ww2 mostly flew it. It was a good fighter, but not a "dogfighter." Not like a spitfire or a zero.

If the p51 were updated with a "fighting" model, it would handle more like a fw190, though a bit less agile because of the lower t/w. Guess what, the fw190 isn't popular online either.

If there were an "escort" mode where one side has to defend bombers and the other side has to attack them, then people would use the fast planes. But again, that's not a dogfight.