I-153: cheap or not?

[haitch40]

your missing the point i can get a spit to turn faster at higher speeds
the reason the i153 is so agile is because of its low speed as for the same angle at a lower speed you will turn quicker
however the main charaterisitic is the force the elivators make like f1 cars wings the higher the speed the more pressure they create to try and force the car in the ground the same applies to a plane but instead of forcing it in the ground they turn the plane the only limitation on agility is stalling when you turn therefore wings have a small roll but the main roll is the elivators
all that and im only 15 lol
ps if you dont agree say so but dont flame me

[Ancient Seraph]

Turn Radius = (Velocity*Velocity)/(11.26 *Tan (bank Angle)) , velocity in Knots, answer in feet.

Rate of Turn = (1092.95*Tan(bank angle))/ Velocity , velocity in Knots, answer in degrees/second

Now the bank angle you can achieve while maintaining a certain speed and altitude does depend on lift, but the turn radius and rate of turn are not directly influenced by lift. You're talking about the horizontal component of lift in a turn, which is a part of the force turning the plane. This depends on the bank angle. A higher lift component means that you can maintain a higher bank angle, and thus get a lower TR and higher ROT.
Still, the main reason the I-153 turns so tightly it can maintain a high bank angle at a low speed, with help of the added lift.
So in conclusion, the general rule to aviation forces is: everything affects everything. In this case TR and ROT are so small/big due to the low airspeed, which is made possible by the increased lift.
I advise everyone who doesn't have a Master's degree in Aerodynamics to not get too involved in the turning fysics of BoP. All of the above can be applied to a non-accelerated turn. If there's any acceleration, in any direction, involved, it gets a lot more complicated, especially with the G-forces involved.

P.S. @ Haitch: Sorry, but you're wrong . The elevators are mainly to get into a turn/climb/etc, but are not the driving force behind it. The F1 car wings are, like the name says, more like wings. Again, it's tricky to get into the fysics of elevators, mainly because they're there to make accelerations, which are hard to work with.

[haitch40]

Originally Posted by Ancient Seraph

I advise everyone who doesn't have a Master's degree in Aerodynamics.

i want one lol

[Ancient Seraph]

Originally Posted by haitch40

i want one lol

I'm content with the basics I know.. too much theory there .

[haitch40]

Originally Posted by Ancient Seraph

P.S. @ Haitch: Sorry, but you're wrong . The elevators are mainly to get into a turn/climb/etc, but are not the driving force behind it. The F1 car wings are, like the name says, more like wings. Again, it's tricky to get into the fysics of elevators, mainly because they're there to make accelerations, which are hard to work with.

my other theory was that it was the drag created by the elivators like if you run a car and break one side only it will turn. i will leave this thread now its too much of an argument
sorry for double post i relised i wanted to say this after i posted last message.

[InfiniteStates]

Originally Posted by Ancient Seraph

Turn Radius = (Velocity*Velocity)/(11.26 *Tan (bank Angle)) , velocity in Knots, answer in feet.

Rate of Turn = (1092.95*Tan(bank angle))/ Velocity , velocity in Knots, answer in degrees/second

These equations must apply to a specific plane, rather than general equations. Hence the constants, which are probably the result of wing equations for this specific plane. Otherwise, you mean to tell me that a plane's wingspan and surface area have no effect on it's ability to turn?

Originally Posted by Ancient Seraph

...You're talking about the horizontal component of lift in a turn, which is a part of the force turning the plane. This depends on the bank angle. A higher lift component means that you can maintain a higher bank angle, and thus get a lower TR and higher ROT.

LOL thank you. You just disproved your statement ("Actually.. both turn radius and rate of turn have nothing to do with lift, but a lot with speed."), and reinforced my argument that the 153 can turn tighter because it has more lift due to having 2 wings instead of 1.


EDIT: thus, making it a cheap plane to whore in online matches. I rest my case

[Ancient Seraph]

Originally Posted by InfiniteStates

These equations must apply to a specific plane, rather than general equations. Hence the constants, which are probably the result of wing equations for this specific plane. Otherwise, you mean to tell me that a plane's wingspan and surface area have no effect on it's ability to turn?


LOL thank you. You just disproved your statement ("Actually.. both turn radius and rate of turn have nothing to do with lift, but a lot with speed."), and reinforced my argument that the 153 can turn tighter because it has more lift due to having 2 wings instead of 1.


EDIT: thus, making it a cheap plane to whore in online matches. I rest my case

Agreed, that statement was incorrect in retrospect. Again, the general rule to aviation forces is: everything affects everything. Conclusion: you, Soviet and me were all right: you need low speed for the best turn, and high lift to maintain it.

P.S.: The formula goes for every plane, you'll just have to check if the airspeed and bank angle used can actually be maintained in a constant non-accelerated flight. E.g. you can't say 'A Spitfire has a turn radius of 14 ft if you fill in v = 30kt and bank angle = 80 degrees', because the Spit can't fly 30 kts with a bank angle of 80 degrees while maintaining altitude and a coordinated turn.
The constant was for conversion so the answers would be in knots and feet.

[jkerr419]

Has anyone mentioned forcing them into a Negative G dive?

[durangodoug]

Despite the speed of the plane and its two sets of wings, my biggest issue with the I153 is its guns. I cant remember if the plane has 2 or 3 guns on it, but they seem to be the best set of guns in the air. I've shot up several planes for several minutes with my P47(8x50 cals, but you guys know that). But the first time I flew against a I153 I was destroyed with just a burst of its guns. The cannons somehow find the worst possible spot in your engine and send bullets flying. I couldn't believe it so I kept trying to fight with the guy (I was in the 109G-2 by now) and he would kill me on on head on passes, deflection shots, anything. And I don't mind being shot down, but even with a hurricane on my tail I can last for a few seconds and try to get away, the I153 seemed to blow my engine on the first burst every freakin time. I started to target him specifically since he was tearing up my team, but I would start shooting from far behind to make him start to maneuver, then I'd rip off those wings with my cannons with the deflection shot. So yea in my opinion the I153 is pretty cheap, but lets be honest, a lot of the Russian planes are strangely strong compared to the rest.

My best way to shoot down an I153? get him as he's preoccupied with shooting down your teammate

[Soviet Ace]

Originally Posted by durangodoug

Despite the speed of the plane and its two sets of wings, my biggest issue with the I153 is its guns. I cant remember if the plane has 2 or 3 guns on it, but they seem to be the best set of guns in the air. I've shot up several planes for several minutes with my P47(8x50 cals, but you guys know that). But the first time I flew against a I153 I was destroyed with just a burst of its guns. The cannons somehow find the worst possible spot in your engine and send bullets flying. I couldn't believe it so I kept trying to fight with the guy (I was in the 109G-2 by now) and he would kill me on on head on passes, deflection shots, anything. And I don't mind being shot down, but even with a hurricane on my tail I can last for a few seconds and try to get away, the I153 seemed to blow my engine on the first burst every freakin time. I started to target him specifically since he was tearing up my team, but I would start shooting from far behind to make him start to maneuver, then I'd rip off those wings with my cannons with the deflection shot. So yea in my opinion the I153 is pretty cheap, but lets be honest, a lot of the Russian planes are strangely strong compared to the rest.

My best way to shoot down an I153? get him as he's preoccupied with shooting down your teammate

It has twin MGs.