Friday 2009-10-23 Screenshots Update discussion thread

[AdMan]

Originally Posted by luthier

I'll answer that while Oleg's out.

The textures are WIP. Some are placeholders, other are not. Once the colors are fixed, the non-placeholder textures will be used in the main gameplay map.

I want to explain the thought process behind the map you're seeing right now a little better. It wasn't a "let's make a little slice of Britain" kind of thing. It wasn't a "let's make the most gorgeous map we can" kind of thing. It was a "let's make a map where we can stretch out various textures, test various options of 3D cliffs, and have a large variety of terrain types dumped together for quicker debugging."

That's how a lot of things are done in development. You need intermediary steps on the long arduous climb to perfection. This map is one of those steps.

Thanks for the insight. As an artist I've learned not to show WIP that doesn't look complete (even if it's not) because the natural response from people is to get worried if they don't understand the process. Knowing the purpose of this particular map I can now better see what is being tested.

[AdMan]

grab0130
these clouds look amazing!

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by AdMan

Thanks for the insight. As an artist I've learned not to show WIP that doesn't look complete (even if it's not) because the natural response from people is to get worried if they don't understand the process. Knowing the purpose of this particular map I can now better see what is being tested.

I remember a similar problem when installing concealed vertical rod exit devices in brand new double doors. (my buddy the glass guy had recieved the doors four weeks late on the day that the customers were supposed to move in and they weren't prepped for the hardware, hardware that was never designed to be field installed by the way)

It was the hardest thing to explain to everyone that the job was 89% prep work and that once the doors started to sprout lock parts the job was nearly done. Sure enough an hour after I screwed in the first mounting stud I was hanging the doors.

To be fair they were moving several million dollars worth of medical equipment in the back while I was trying to get the doors finished in front. So a suppose a little panic was in order from people who don't understand the process.

[F16_Petter]

Thank you Oleg & Co for the nice updates.
Here are a couple of questions.

Q1. Could you please tell us something about light rendering in SoW regarding "after sunset" that means nighttime. As of now, I have not seen any PC simluator that simulates pitch black night conditions.
(only real "industrial" full flight simulators at the academy).

Take IL2 versus reality for example, there is no way that you could navigate in the air @ 23:35 on a Octobre night in Europe region without instruments. You would not see the horizon, or anything at all.. unless perhaps three conditions applied:
A) Lots of groundlights giving away the contour of terrain and horizon.
B) Altitude was 65.000 feet and above and you might get a glimpse of dawn or sunset far far away.
C) There is moonligt or bright stars and you are flying over the artics..

In IL2 I cannot recreate any night time condition where it is difficult to see the ground or navigate... regardless of time, season or location.
The only time I get problem navigating is when I am above overcast or when flying inside a cloud. (ofcourse)

So to get back to the question, please tell us something about differances with IL2 and SoW regarding night conditions.

I know that there are many "experts" out there that would like to wave off this question by just saying..
"well, during world war 2 they never flew at night, or they did very seldom because it was so difficult.. so why even bother making this realistic.. its just a waste of developer time... its not worth it, its not interesting bla bla bla."

All I wish for is a combat flightsim where it IS difficult or nearly impossible to fly during nighttime.



Q2. Regarding CEM. etc... Will it be possible to select feeding from different fuel tanks in the planes that have this ability? (tank selector valve)

Thank you very much for the efforts you are putting into this simulator.
Best wishes from a cold and very dark Scandinavia.

[jocko417]

Hi Oleg,

Lovely shots, very excited. I have a question about your Spitfire model, it has chord-wise stiffeners installed above the main wheel wells, I had thought these weren't installed until later in the war, predominately on Spitfires involved in dive bombing, due to stresses involved during high g pull outs. Photo evidence would have it that the average Mk I/II Spits did not have them during the Battle of Britain, although they could have been retro-fitted after the battle as the airframes aged. The Spit Mk I at the IWM in London has them, but also carries late war roundels which suggests the stiffeners were added later.

[Oleg Maddox]

Originally Posted by jocko417

Hi Oleg,

Lovely shots, very excited. I have a question about your Spitfire model, it has chord-wise stiffeners installed above the main wheel wells, I had thought these weren't installed until later in the war, predominately on Spitfires involved in dive bombing, due to stresses involved during high g pull outs. Photo evidence would have it that the average Mk I/II Spits did not have them during the Battle of Britain, although they could have been retro-fitted after the battle as the airframes aged. The Spit Mk I at the IWM in London has them, but also carries late war roundels which suggests the stiffeners were added later.

Maybe some part didn't have it, however in manufacture design description it is present for MKI and up. It is probably the same thing like in SU with aviation - by manufacture design description all aircraft had radio station, however in reality many of then hadn't in 1941 due to lack of details or due to fact that some pilots removed it especially (both things were present)
We can't make so many small diffences for each period of war or life of the plane in one squadron. Say in case of radio call we would need to make way more complex system of radio chatter code... But we need universal system for the whole period of war... Such contradictions some time very hard to solve. Just for example.

For the spitfires as I recall we did two types of proppeller and pitch regulation. This is possible and must be, becasue type of prop changes the behavior of aircraft at climb, acceleration and as a result - in dogfight.
Such things are very important for the flight and as a result for the gameplay. We try to go by this way at first learning experience of Il-2 gameplay.

[jocko417]

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox

Maybe some part didn't have it, however in manufacture design description it is present for MKI and up. It is probably the same thing like in SU with aviation - by manufacture design description all aircraft had radio station, however in reality many of then hadn't in 1941 due to lack of details or due to fact that some pilots removed it especially (both things were present)
We can't make so many small diffences for each period of war or life of the plane in one squadron. Say in case of radio call we would need to make way more complex system of radio chatter code... But we need universal system for the whole period of war... Such contradictions some time very hard to solve. Just for example.

For the spitfires as I recall we did two types of proppeller and pitch regulation. This is possible and must be, becasue type of prop changes the behavior of aircraft at climb, acceleration and as a result - in dogfight.
Such things are very important for the flight and as a result for the gameplay. We try to go by this way at first learning experience of Il-2 gameplay.

Thanks for your quick reply Oleg, to avoid any confusion I'll restate my original intent as simply as possible: I don't believe ANY Spits should have stiffeners over the wheel wells, circa 1940. They were added as modification 532 (dated July 16 1942) and were only a temporary measure until they started using thicker panels over the wheel wells during wing skin construction. Any surviving Mk I airframes you see today that have the stiffeners would have had them added two years after the BoB.

Also, I don't think the majority of Spits had gun barrels that protruded from the gun ports during the BoB, they had been replaced with a shorter barreled version that allowed the ports to be taped over, due to lack of gun heating on early Spitfires. Any photos I've seen of Spits with the longer barrels are all pre-war photos.

[Romanator21]

Originally Posted by F16_Petter

All I wish for is a combat flightsim where it IS difficult or nearly impossible to fly during nighttime.

I think the biggest problem is for computers at home: It's nearly impossible to see anything in night conditions in the game if the room the monitor is in is sunlit, or otherwise bright. This is also a concern with the glossy monitor screens that seem to be more common these days. Making a pitch black environment would just turn the screen into a mirror for some folks unless they had the luxury of playing in a darkroom. It's not always possible if you have a family or roommates that need the light

[Oleg Maddox]

Originally Posted by F16_Petter

Thank you Oleg & Co for the nice updates.
Here are a couple of questions.

Q1. Could you please tell us something about light rendering in SoW regarding "after sunset" that means nighttime. As of now, I have not seen any PC simluator that simulates pitch black night conditions.
(only real "industrial" full flight simulators at the academy).

Take IL2 versus reality for example, there is no way that you could navigate in the air @ 23:35 on a Octobre night in Europe region without instruments. You would not see the horizon, or anything at all.. unless perhaps three conditions applied:
A) Lots of groundlights giving away the contour of terrain and horizon.
B) Altitude was 65.000 feet and above and you might get a glimpse of dawn or sunset far far away.
C) There is moonligt or bright stars and you are flying over the artics..

In IL2 I cannot recreate any night time condition where it is difficult to see the ground or navigate... regardless of time, season or location.
The only time I get problem navigating is when I am above overcast or when flying inside a cloud. (ofcourse)

So to get back to the question, please tell us something about differances with IL2 and SoW regarding night conditions.

I know that there are many "experts" out there that would like to wave off this question by just saying..
"well, during world war 2 they never flew at night, or they did very seldom because it was so difficult.. so why even bother making this realistic.. its just a waste of developer time... its not worth it, its not interesting bla bla bla."

All I wish for is a combat flightsim where it IS difficult or nearly impossible to fly during nighttime.



Q2. Regarding CEM. etc... Will it be possible to select feeding from different fuel tanks in the planes that have this ability? (tank selector valve)

Thank you very much for the efforts you are putting into this simulator.
Best wishes from a cold and very dark Scandinavia.

1. Can't say you all details at the moment. the night should be tuned as all these things with the wathe conditions, movement of clouds, type of clouds, etc. Technology existed, but need fine tunings its what the part of my guys doing. I only can say that all these things are far of representation such things in Il-2, however I don't remember other WWII sims that was making better than in Il-2...

2. Possible. Even to start separate gasoline engine of air compessor for the brakes with exhaust of gazes under the pilot seat in Italian bomber posssible... However when I saw that it was done already by programmer, I said for what? Do you think somebody will use it or even know about such a feature of Br.20? His answer was - its fan and crazy! Then I told and how we will model the bad feel of crew due to exhaust gazes in a cockpit?

[F16_Petter]

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox

2. Possible. Even to start separate gasoline engine of air compessor for the brakes with exhaust of gazes under the pilot seat in Italian bomber posssible... However when I saw that it was done already by programmer, I said for what? Do you think somebody will use it or even know about such a feature of Br.20? His answer was - its fan and crazy! Then I told and how we will model the bad feel of crew due to exhaust gazes in a cockpit?

I was thinking it could be useful for other airplanes in future, as I understand the SoW engine will be used for future releases other than Battle of Britain.
(If I understood you correct earlier in other interviews)
For an example...
Lets say the P51 has ability to select what tank to empty first and it changes weight and balance (performance and stability) of the aircraft, I do not know to what degree these things are modelled in the SoW flight model but it was just an idea. There are other examples of aircraft that you wanted fuel in the wings for as long time as possible and center or auxilary tanks were emptied first. Also vice versa situations existed.

Not all aircraft featured self sealing fuel tanks, so some aircraft that get fuel leak could use this feature to select leaking tank as main fuel source to minimize fuel spill.

Again, I do not know what aircraft are being included in BoB or other sim from you, its just an idea for the future.

Thank you for your quick response.