Don't you feel ripped off as a console gamer?

[Axe99]

Hey Houndstone, you raise two issues:

1) content in original game

The important thing to keep in mind here is that the devs want to take this game beyond the PC crowd that have migrated to console, but still keep the simmers happy (which I'm _very_ happy about )). If they go in too hardcore in their first outing, it's likely to come up in reviews, which will turn off buyers. If this is successful (and the signs are looking pretty good so far), then it's laying the groundwork for sim-style flyers on console - but the groundwork has to be laid down first. Driving games didn't start with GT5 and the driving force pro, they started with very basic wheels and much simpler handling models. Similarly, console flight games will need to do the same, or it'll be too much for flyers who haven't got a PC background. I personaly think they've done
a masterful job of balancing the arcade and the sim crowd, and hope that IL-2 as a console franchise goes from strength to strength, encouraging other more simmy games on our black/grey boxes .

2) value for DLC.


The content in the original game was _brilliant_ value - 70+ missions, often quite involved, 30+ planes (they don't get the full 40 from me, as some are plain impractical to unlock)), multiplayer and painted pictures of all the pilots ). So it's not as if anyone was ripped off here. If you don't like it, buy any other console flight game in the last decade and you'll see that you're not getting a rough run. The DLC itself is a further two planes and six missions, all with the new plane (really looking forward to getting my teeth into the P-47 - on PS3, so haven't seen these yet) - the asking price for this is also very reasonable. Both took work, and I think it's only fair the devs get paid for the work they do . It's not as if we're spending $5 for anime skins for our planes .

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by Axe99

Hey Houndstone, you raise two issues:

1) content in original game

The important thing to keep in mind here is that the devs want to take this game beyond the PC crowd that have migrated to console, but still keep the simmers happy (which I'm _very_ happy about )). If they go in too hardcore in their first outing, it's likely to come up in reviews, which will turn off buyers. If this is successful (and the signs are looking pretty good so far), then it's laying the groundwork for sim-style flyers on console - but the groundwork has to be laid down first. Driving games didn't start with GT5 and the driving force pro, they started with very basic wheels and much simpler handling models. Similarly, console flight games will need to do the same, or it'll be too much for flyers who haven't got a PC background. I personaly think they've done
a masterful job of balancing the arcade and the sim crowd, and hope that IL-2 as a console franchise goes from strength to strength, encouraging other more simmy games on our black/grey boxes .

2) value for DLC.


The content in the original game was _brilliant_ value - 70+ missions, often quite involved, 30+ planes (they don't get the full 40 from me, as some are plain impractical to unlock)), multiplayer and painted pictures of all the pilots ). So it's not as if anyone was ripped off here. If you don't like it, buy any other console flight game in the last decade and you'll see that you're not getting a rough run. The DLC itself is a further two planes and six missions, all with the new plane (really looking forward to getting my teeth into the P-47 - on PS3, so haven't seen these yet) - the asking price for this is also very reasonable. Both took work, and I think it's only fair the devs get paid for the work they do . It's not as if we're spending $5 for anime skins for our planes .

Couldn't agree less I'm afraid with both points. A mere sprinkling of cockpits, a sim mode that is broken in my opinion beyond repair, awful control issues that are screaming "fix me", no replayabilty what so ever, no customization thru any gameplay mode, how is this to attract anyone with the love of a good combat simulation; & that my friend is where it's roots lie; IL-2 Sturmovik was, & is, the grandaddy of that genre.
So to bring such a class act to a console, the game has to be stripped of interest, glossed in pretty paint & sold at double the price?

The DLC supplied, at any price, is a cheek & a blatant disregard to fans of the game, wanting immersion & fixes. So the P-47 finally shows up with its own cockpit; no wait hang on, isn't that a P-51 cockpit? no ofcourse not. What does the other planes' 'office' look like? Is the map new? Is it another part of Bastogne that we haven't seen? IT WAS ALL PART OF THE ORIGINAL GAME!!!!
OK; lessons learned from Over G Fighters. That game did nothing wrong, had great control mapping, had fantastic model physics & flight characteristics, was hellishly immersive, had everything BoP lacks, but no one dug it & so it died. BoP has looks & very little else but lives & how much money do we have to shell out each time before everyone is satisfied when the original back in 2001 did it bang on 1st time.
Oleg wanted nothing to do with this title & I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. Two copies, 2 control sticks & many hours down the line I can see why .... IMO!!!

[PantherAttack2]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

A mere sprinkling of cockpits, a sim mode that is broken in my opinion beyond repair, awful control issues that are screaming "fix me", no replayability what so ever, no customization through any gameplay mode,...

I'll just go in the order you listed those items:

-I wouldn't call it a 'sprinkling of cockpits'. With the exception of bombers, all allied aircraft have modeled cockpits and I'm sure German cockpits are on the way.

-I don't see how sim mode is 'broken beyond repair'... Enlighten me please?

-Control issues I can't argue with; although I have no problem with the current controls I think it's stupid to not include other control options

-No replayability what so ever? As far as I'm concerned, training mode (really simplified mission builder) and online provide plenty of replayability. Saying there isn't any at all is pure rubbish.

-What do you even mean by 'customization'? Customization of what?

Originally Posted by PantherAttack2

BoP is lacking in many aspects compared to IL-2 1946, but it has made great improvements over other console combat flight games.

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by PantherAttack2

I'll just go in the order you listed those items:

-I wouldn't call it a 'sprinkling of cockpits'. With the exception of bombers, all allied aircraft have modeled cockpits and I'm sure German cockpits are on the way.

-I don't see how sim mode is 'broken beyond repair'... Enlighten me please?

-Control issues I can't argue with; although I have no problem with the current controls I think it's stupid to not include other control options

-No replayability what so ever? As far as I'm concerned, training mode (really simplified mission builder) and online provide plenty of replayability. Saying there isn't any at all is pure rubbish.
-What do you even mean by 'customization'? Customization of what?

Sim Mode broken beyond repair details the very problem with controls and I do believe it will not be fixed; perhaps the mapping of buttons can do a little but the issues with such a gargantuan dead zone problem in my opinion, will not be touched upon or rectified. How anyone is supposed to exercise any form of skill or flair with such a hampered control discrepancey is beyond me.

Customisation? The ability to customise anything; you name it, other than time, place & weather for a little you against the same enemy & the ability to stick on a missile or 2. Customization, the simple abilities to t/o, land, fly to a designation, even the simple customization to t/o into an enjoyable free flight, being able to choose multiple wingmen, to fight in a training scenario with a little mix & variety, change a livery or two, to name but a few simple ones.

Re: Cockpits to allied aircraft; do you not regard the PO-2 as being an allied non-bomber aircraft for starters. Do you also regard the P-51 as having its own cockpit?

[PantherAttack2]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

Sim Mode broken beyond repair details the very problem with controls and I do believe it will not be fixed; perhaps the mapping of buttons can do a little but the issues with such a gargantuan dead zone problem in my opinion, will not be touched upon or rectified. How anyone is supposed to exercise any form of skill or flair with such a hampered control discrepancey is beyond me.

Customisation? The ability to customise anything; you name it, other than time, place & weather for a little you against the same enemy & the ability to stick on a missile or 2. Customization, the simple abilities to t/o, land, fly to a designation, even the simple customization to t/o into an enjoyable free flight, being able to choose multiple wingmen, to fight in a training scenario with a little mix & variety, change a livery or two, to name but a few simple ones.

Re: Cockpits to allied aircraft; do you not regard the PO-2 as being an allied non-bomber aircraft for starters. Do you also regard the P-51 as having its own cockpit?

I don't know how the development of the game was worked out, but they didn't put in extra customization options for some reason. If it was out of laziness or perhaps they saw no need to include it in the game, then I will complain about it.

The P-51 does have a cockpit, it's just the wrong one . I won't deny that BoP has plenty of faults, (like the Po-2 you mentioned, which I had completely forgot about) but to sum up my views:

I do feel ripped off as a console gamer, but with BoP ( and other games) I can enjoy stunning graphics and fun gameplay with the portability of a console.

[InfiniteStates]

If you feel ripped off, why not add up the cost of a gaming PC and peripherals, take away the cost of your console and peripherals then divide the difference by the average cost of a new console game? How many games does that get you before you actually are being ripped off?

Given that BoP is the first console outing for the series means a lot of the development time is spent getting the core engine off the ground. Development costs a lot of money, and "feature creep" can prove very expensive, if not fatal, to development houses/publishers if not kept in check. You can keep adding features until the cows come home, but if you don't get your product out there earning you are just burning money.

If you want to make a fair comparison, at least compare BoP to the very first IL2 game, not one that has undergone several iterations of refinement.

But games do get dumbed down for the console market, undoubtedly. Either accept that or go back to PC gaming. It's that simple really.

I personally prefer console gaming because I can sit more comfortably in the lounge with a bigger screen, not spend hours trying to configure the game or hardware to actually run the thing and not worry about being bettered online by someone with superior hardware or hacks.

[Soulsurfer]

Originally Posted by InfiniteStates

If you want to make a fair comparison, at least compare BoP to the very first IL2 game, not one that has undergone several iterations of refinement.

Even the very first IL2 game on the PC blows BOP away as it's a far better game in every respect apart from it's graphics.

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by InfiniteStates

If you feel ripped off, why not add up the cost of a gaming PC and peripherals, take away the cost of your console and peripherals then divide the difference by the average cost of a new console game? How many games does that get you before you actually are being ripped off?

Given that BoP is the first console outing for the series means a lot of the development time is spent getting the core engine off the ground. Development costs a lot of money, and "feature creep" can prove very expensive, if not fatal, to development houses/publishers if not kept in check. You can keep adding features until the cows come home, but if you don't get your product out there earning you are just burning money.

If you want to make a fair comparison, at least compare BoP to the very first IL2 game, not one that has undergone several iterations of refinement.

But games do get dumbed down for the console market, undoubtedly. Either accept that or go back to PC gaming. It's that simple really.

I personally prefer console gaming because I can sit more comfortably in the lounge with a bigger screen, not spend hours trying to configure the game or hardware to actually run the thing and not worry about being bettered online by someone with superior hardware or hacks.

When I mean IL-2 STURMOVIK for the PC, I am quite obviously referring to IL-2 STURMOVIK on the PC. I may have mentioned 1946 once within that post but my references are based upon the original 2001 release. I believe my quote (below) re: 1946 was merely describing it as the complete series all rolled into one & in no way was a direct comparison being made being BoP & 1946 alone.


"IL-2 1946 that came out only a few years ago was the complete series in one ..."


Other than your attempt at 'word twist', I also believe you make a very weak 1st point. Can (or could) you not run a PC combat sim as simple as IL-2 without Perepherals or a top-end graphics card? Hell yes. I did for ages!!! Sure it helps; but it also helps if you spend over 100 quid on a large 360 hard drive (that does nothing more than a bog-standard PC drive for about 20 - 30 quid), mouth watering console flight sticks etc.