The Sultan's Alchemist quest....erm, what?

[axxis34]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

Fairly historical benign? I don't even...

If a fantasy game with flying horses and giant man eating plants referenced the second coming of Jesus and quoted Aristotle, you better believe it sticks out like a sore thumb.

This guy isn't referenced as someone who is 'obviously middle eastern' but someone who is and was around where Islam was practiced. Which puts Islam in your whole game setting. Which puts kind of everything else in the whole picture too. It's not unique anymore.

The world is supposed to be unique, isn't it? Which means that you cannot use historical connotations, only general ones. You can use middle eastern but you can't use Ottoman anything because that has a connotation you cannot generalize. Which means you cannot use Sultan anything.

English literature is very strict on this kind of thing. You know, time periods, anachronisms, pretty sure there is a definition for this sort of example as a no-no.

As a literary framework, it is not done. And every serious author knows this.

It's not the same thing as basing your story around the Norse gods. Not even remotely close.

Ofcourse you can use anything from the middle-east. Did you not read my reply? The vikings were all over the known (and much of the unknown) world at that time! They knew about islam, they knew about christianity, they knew about jews et al. Did they care? Not much. They were happy with their own gods, yet ... they were eventually converted to christianity, by force.

Maybe you should try to wikipedia vikings and see what they really did.

You dont see me bashing christianty right? Even though I would be entitled too, since my ancestors were vikings and were converted to a religion they really didnt want. Hell, Sweden wasnt fully converted until around 1600 or so. Even to this day you have priests of the old norse gods doing their thing.

[KaryAnn]

Originally Posted by 5h1nj1

How can anyone even remotely reference content of this beautifully cheesy and funny game to terrorism, is completely beyond me.
The fact alone suggests there something wrong with you, mate. I'm sorry about personal tragedies that may have happened to you but stop constructing absurd theories.
If you can't get rid of these connotations, stop playing the game but at the same time you might wanna stop watching TV, stop reading books, stop talking to people and so on. Because, you know, someone might mention sultans accidentally. -_-'

Yup, I already uninstalled. And yep, it's a very beautiful, cheesy game and I have been a fan of the units ever since I found it on Kongregate. It reminded me of better times. Norse content seemed like the icing on the cake.

And I'm not the one who referenced its content to terrorism, the in game quest did. Broke my heart.

If fun, campy games can no longer be innocent things that you can even let a child play, without fear of any connotations then they are no longer games designed with heart. Whatever tragedies I have suffered, it just shows that they are there. If game designers don't realize they have the power to improve someone's life just by making it better or giving them a world they don't live in, they are just not dreaming big enough.

It's like War Amps for children, where they lose a limb, and they make a mechanical one to replace the use of the old one. It will never be like the old one, but it serves its purpose. Games have the same power to treat trauma. It gives them a world they no longer have. And why not? It's not like it serves anyone to have that connotation there. If you can improve someone's life by changing it, then it's heartless to argue against it. Whether you think there's something wrong with them or not.

[KaryAnn]

Originally Posted by axxis34

Ofcourse you can use anything from the middle-east. Did you not read my reply? The vikings were all over the known (and much of the unknown) world at that time! They knew about islam, they knew about christianity, they knew about jews et al. Did they care? Not much. They were happy with their own gods, yet ... they were eventually converted to christianity, by force.

Maybe you should try to wikipedia vikings and see what they really did.

You dont see me bashing christianty right? Even though I would be entitled too, since my ancestors were vikings and were converted to a religion they really didnt want. Hell, Sweden wasnt fully converted until around 1600 or so. Even to this day you have priests of the old norse gods doing their thing.

Of course I read everything you said, the problem you have is that the vikings did all this at different times. They didn't serve as bodyguards for the Sultans as you say while they worshipped Odin. It's a historical anachronism.

You can't just pool such a long history of a people into one segment.

[KaryAnn]

Originally Posted by Totoro

Religious terrorism as we know it, is a quite new phenomenon.
What comes to this game, there are no pictures of prophet Mohammed or any offensive material.

I don't know if you believe he was, but the Jews were not given any more prophets, past a certain time, and this time was prophesied by one of their prophets, which was long before Jesus Christ, long before.

It's in the Bible.

So I don't know what that is supposed to be a prophet of because he certainly didn't preach Judaism. He couldn't even get the Lord's name right, because the Jews would never utter it and in fact lost the original. You would think a prophet of the Lord would actually know who he was a prophet of? And not call him something totally outlandish.

And there was no Jewish prophet that killed and murdered, especially other Jews while trying to conquer the world. Just saying.

That's not a religion anymore, that's a counter-religion.

[Bhruic]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

This guy isn't referenced as someone who is 'obviously middle eastern' but someone who is and was around where Islam was practiced. Which puts Islam in your whole game setting. Which puts kind of everything else in the whole picture too. It's not unique anymore.

This is, I'm afraid, an incredibly silly statement. You're confusing culture with religion. There is no mention of Islam, or anything relating to it. There are references to historical Arabic culture. Which is no different than the references in the game to historical Viking culture. You have to be trying awfully hard to get offended by this, as no rational thinker is going to make the leap between "harems" or "Sultans" and Islam.

Heck, if one were to make such a leap, you'd have to assume the game was putting Christianity into the game too by referencing "Kings" and "knights".

[5h1nj1]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

And I'm not the one who referenced its content to terrorism, the in game quest did. Broke my heart.

It didn't. It's only in your mind.

You are overdoing it by a whole lot but hey, whatever suits you.
I was just surprised someone could act so close-minded on this. No offense, I respect your opinion but I feel you should know that your reasoning sounds really weird and a bit creepy actually.

[Fatt_Shade]

Well i have not been more amused/shocked by some post on this forum before. So lets start :
1)

So my question to the developers is do you have any plans of changing the background and lines of Alchemist Morrek. Or frankly, just remove Olaf's questions about his turban, what a sultan is, where that country is, what they do there, and so forth.

OMG , harem, sultan, turban = 1C obviously is funding terrorist organizations. WTF is wrong with you, how did you get form those 3 words to terrorism in modern world. They made fantasy world based on Norse world, and their mythology in which they did travel around world and had contact with Arabic nations (have you seen movie `13th warrior`?)
2)

Should we stop caring about 9/11? Should we forget about that too? When terrorists blow up innocent people because they want to impose their will over someone's else, we should forget about that too and say "Oh please..."?

If by terrorist here you mean CIA operatives then yea we should not forget what they did. With your reference on this date i`ll presume you`re american and hope that you dont believe everything you see on news and therefore it must be true.
3) Have you played Age of Empires games ? In them were information about time/nations/religions based on true facts form history and many players found them interesting, but there were also missions and campaigns about Saladin/Saracen which were Islamic nation at that time so obviously that game studio also support terrorists, and should be destroyed by holy empire of usa and their ever vigil guard over world peace and protection from evil of Islam. Give me a f...ing brake.
4)

This guy isn't referenced as someone who is 'obviously middle eastern' but someone who is and was around where Islam was practiced. Which puts Islam in your whole game setting.

1 character mentions 3 words that are connected to old Islamic culture, and you form that deduce that ALL game (with hundreds of NPC-s, quests, locations ...) is now set in pro-Islam settings. Really intelligent of you.
5)

Yup, I already uninstalled. And yep, it's a very beautiful, cheesy game and I have been a fan of the units ever since I found it on Kongregate. It reminded me of better times. Norse content seemed like the icing on the cake.

And I'm not the one who referenced its content to terrorism, the in game quest did. Broke my heart.

You uninstalled the game, good for you. Since it openly support terrorism in it content. You dont even deserve to play game with so interesting world with is basics in 1000+ years old if first reference you get from some silly quest dialog is modern world terrorism.
6)

If fun, campy games can no longer be innocent things that you can even let a child play, without fear of any connotations then they are no longer games designed with heart. Whatever tragedies I have suffered, it just shows that they are there. If game designers don't realize they have the power to improve someone's life just by making it better or giving them a world they don't live in, they are just not dreaming big enough.

When some game use Islamic characters as default terrorist/Russians are always bad guys or Germans are 100% nazis it`s OK, but in this game you found 1 piece of information about Islamic culture and their ruler and found it offensive and asked from game developers to change whole quest because of it. Whatever tragedies you suffered ... who gives a flying f..k, millions of people suffer all over world and you cry about your on game forum finding some sick connection between game quest and modern world terrorism.
7)

Of course I read everything you said, the problem you have is that the vikings did all this at different times. They didn't serve as bodyguards for the Sultans as you say while they worshipped Odin. It's a historical anachronism.

You can't just pool such a long history of a people into one segment.

Where does it say that bodyguard must bee same religion as person they guard ??? And you just pool whole religion with centuries of history, and hundreds of millions of believers into simple `they are all terrorists`description. So dont give other people lectures about generalization.
8 )

And there was no Jewish prophet that killed and murdered, especially other Jews while trying to conquer the world. Just saying.

How about Crusades ? Done in name of church, killing millions of people, not just Muslims but also all over Europe all who didnt support crusaders were put to sword. Ever heard of Inquisition ? Who ever knew to read/write/ask questions that didnt go with Christian church way of thinking = which and burn on stake for it. Dont give us some moral lectures about other religions innocence.
And how did every nation in history got to be ? British empire expanded all over world by giving away candy ? Portugal/Spain wiped out whole South America continent by holding hands and singing with native Mayans/Inka... Did your own usa got founded from peaceful negotiations between north and south confederations in that little misunderstanding you call civil war 1861-1865 ? Your own nation have history less then 2 century ( in which you already had more then dozen wars trying to expand your territories all over world, like old empires did) , and you give other nations `no-no finger` when they try to protect themselves and you call it terrorism.

So in the end admins can ban me free for my next statement, but i think it would be worth it. KaryAnn you are ******* idiot, and you need to get the **** out of this forum with your redneck way of thinking.
Best of wishes Fatt_shade.

[hotfix666]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

The alchemist quest on the second island, which is a story quest and you have to visit him, tells you a story about how he got his turban. After following various conversations options in asking him about it, we find out it's not a regular turban, but one worn by Islamic 'warriors' as he further goes into detail that he was the "Sultan's" alchemist for a time, following an accident that made him leave the land of Noltan. The alchemist further talks about the Sultan calling him a 'great warrior'.

Lastly he references a "harem" and having multiple wives, in a wishful manner.

Again, what?! What did I just play, I crossed the river in a Viking longboat, ended up on the snowy shore of a fantasy game filled with fantasy creatures where I had just fought some dragonflies and then the next quest gives me a lesson in Islamic history?! Where did that come from? Why is that even there.

This is an inappropriate quest for the game, and frankly I don't want to go into detail as to why. Those discussions never end up in a good place and the threads get ban hammered without ever really solving the problem. As it stands however, the connotations involved in this quest are inappropriate and if we cannot discuss them on public forums why should they be presented in a game?

There is no freedom to interpret the game's descriptions a different way because the connotations are so religiously specific.

Most of all a fantasy game with a nordic theme at that. Talk about the consumer getting completely snowballed into thinking they bought one thing and then receiving another. This is not appropriate content for the game! It is not even remotely advertised by the game's theme.

Not to mention it would be controversial even if it was remotely advertised by a different theme.

Assassin's Creed games at least have a 'religious disclaimer' right when you first start the game, so you know what you are getting before you play it. This quest however, came right out nowhere and in no way fits the setting.

You can't even skip the quest because the character is tied to the main story. So he will have to be a character you interact with whether you like it or not.

So my question to the developers is do you have any plans of changing the background and lines of Alchemist Morrek. Or frankly, just remove Olaf's questions about his turban, what a sultan is, where that country is, what they do there, and so forth.

Better you sleep

[rickah88]

@OP,

So did you complete the quest?

[axxis34]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

Of course I read everything you said, the problem you have is that the vikings did all this at different times. They didn't serve as bodyguards for the Sultans as you say while they worshipped Odin. It's a historical anachronism.

You can't just pool such a long history of a people into one segment.

Well, since the viking age only lasted from 793 (plundering of the abbey on Lindisfarne) to 1066 (battle of stamford bridge) they sure did serve as bodyguards while still worshipping the norse gods. There are historical evidence of this, but you can ofcourse choose to ignore it.
I really dont get what you mean by different times? Bear in mind that it wasnt until the 11th century that the "vikings" were considered to be converted to the "new religion" (ie at the end of the viking age)