Leading Edge Slats on the Me-109

I'll just jump in here and say stalls for all aircraft are easily the least realistic part of the game in that they always drop instantly into a spin, and the subsequent spin is almost always unrealistically difficult to recover from. This includes the P-39. With effort one might stop the spin from going too far but this is hardly realistic. Individual stall/spin characteristics are also missing.

[Crumpp]

To me it seems you were saying the 109 would not spin even if the pilot made a mistake.

I think you are just trolling.

Honestly, slats are an anti spin device.

So what do you think an airplane equipped with an anti-spin device would require good flying to prevent a spin?

Or do you think the training wheels would work to keep the bicycle upright so it does not tip over and fall?

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

I think you are just trolling.

Honestly, slats are an anti spin device.

So what do you think an airplane equipped with an anti-spin device would require good flying to prevent a spin?

Or do you think the training wheels would work to keep the bicycle upright so it does not tip over and fall?

I am not sure what you mean with me 'trolling' - could you please describe maneuveurs you do in the Bf 109 that you find it difficult not to spin her?

I completely understand what you're saying and I know what the slats do. The plane would still spin if you make a piloting mistake though - and that's what I see most of the time online - 109 suddenly turning too tight (attacking or breaking) and spinning in. 109 climbing, realising there is a threat behind them and pulling hard a lot and too quickly - spin. Sometimes you can tell he's looking back at you and makes a mistake with the rudder. Or 109 attacking at high speed, I break hard, he tries to get guns on me with plenty of rudder = flips wing. Beautiful high speed stall, but if he's good he regains control very quickly, although that piloting error will cost him lots of E.

I fly the 109 in this sim very often and I honestly don't find it being 'unforgoving' or going into 'violent spin' without warning as some say. I wonder why is that, my guess would be FF joystick or simply the fact I am flying her smoothly. There is lots of warning - FF, buffeting acompanied with specific sound. If someone pulls the stick like it's a toilet plunger of course he will spin her.

So if you could describe maneuveurs where the 109 spins while it shouldn't that would be great. I am not 'trolling', I am simply very interested.

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

do you think the training wheels would work to keep the bicycle upright so it does not tip over and fall?

Back in the day my brother had training wheels on his bicycle and he tipped it over and fell many times.

[taildraggernut]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

I think you are just trolling.

Honestly, slats are an anti spin device.

So what do you think an airplane equipped with an anti-spin device would require good flying to prevent a spin?

Or do you think the training wheels would work to keep the bicycle upright so it does not tip over and fall?

I really can't believe you typed this publically, slats are NOT I repeat NOT anti spin devices, slats are not anti-anything devices, they simply allow you to hang on to laminar flow air at slightly higher angles of attack but if you exceed that angle a slatted wing is stalled just like any other and subject to the same pitfalls.

[NZtyphoon]

Image removed.

Please leave the thread if want to troll like that.


++Moderated++

[Crumpp]

they simply allow you to hang on to laminar flow air

Experts....have fun

[taildraggernut]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Experts....have fun

So.....how exactly does the fact that the venturi effect caused by the 'slot' created by an open slat which re-energises the boundary layer of air over the wing maintaining smooth flow (sometimes called laminar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow ) prevent you from understanding what I meant?

While we're discussing this so civilly perhaps you could explain to us all this magical phenomenon that prevents a slatted wing from stalling once it has gone beyond its allowable angle of attack?

[Crumpp]

I really can't believe you typed this publically, slats are NOT I repeat NOT anti spin devices, slats are not anti-anything devices, they simply allow you to hang on to laminar flow air at slightly higher angles of attack but if you exceed that angle a slatted wing is stalled just like any other and subject to the same pitfalls.

While we're discussing this so civilly

You are not discussing anything civilly...you are just making insults.

So.....how exactly does the fact that the venturi effect caused by the 'slot' created by an open slat which re-energises the boundary layer of air over the wing maintaining smooth flow

First of all, you do not understand the fundamentals of LE slat aerodynamics.

Quit using wikipedia as your source. It is not credible and in this case is just plain wrong as the author does not understand boundary layer mechanics.

In boundary layer mechanics, we have two portions, laminar and turbulent.

Laminar flow is the last thing you want on the outboard portion in a stall. Laminar flow is low energy. That is why it is low drag AND subsequently, low lift.

Slats work by increasing turbulent flow not laminar flow. Turbulent flow portion of the boundary layer is high energy and high lift!

Flow separation from the top of the airfoil, i.e., stall, results from the loss of the kinetic energy in the boundary layer due to viscous shear and an adverse pressure gradient. A turbulent boundary layer is better able to delay flow separation than a laminar boundary layer because of the higher energy associated with the turbulence. For this reason it is better to have a turbulent boundary layer over the airfoil. Vortex generator are put on the top surface of a wing for the purpose of forcing the early transition of the boudary layer to turbulent.

optfly.iaa.ncku.edu.tw/aftdesgn/lect16.pdf

The laminar flow is not the purpose of the slats, it is the increase in turbulent flow boundary layer which delays the onset of the stall.

No stall = NO SPIN! Hence, the spin resistance found in slats and the reason engineers used them as an early anti-spin device.






They are spin resistant because they allow for control inputs that would normally result in a spin. One can easily see this in the RAE report.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

I think you are just trolling.

Honestly, slats are an anti spin device.

So what do you think an airplane equipped with an anti-spin device would require good flying to prevent a spin?

Or do you think the training wheels would work to keep the bicycle upright so it does not tip over and fall?

The logical result of your position is that aircraft with slats cannot spin as they are anti spin devices. Are you really sure that is what you are saying?

As a CFI you cannot seriously say that is a fact. The slats are a device that delay the stall, but pushed too far will stall. It doesn't stop a spin.

The Glider I flew that cannot be spun is a K21, it doesn't have slats, but it certainly could be stalled. If anyone is interested we used K13's for spin training.