4.11 - AI debugging

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Lagarto

The problem is - once the AI enter circuit, they won't fight any more.
I know that someone else may call it a feature. The AI dudes could have a bad day, temporary blindness, air sickness, suicidal thoughts, hangover or they were just plain dumb. But maybe, just maybe, it's a bug and need fixing?

I already addressed this so fix is ready for 4.12. But while we are at it what would be desired AI behavior in this situation. Currently, I have them stay in landing pattern unless they are directly attacked.

[Lagarto]

The escorts should defend their charges, not only themselves.

[Asheshouse]

In the context of carriers being the home airfield, an example from real life.

Battle of Midway, 6th June 1942. From the Action Report by the Commander of Yorktown.

At about 1359, while fueling the fighters which had turned on board, Radar detected and enemy attack group coming in from a bearing about 250° true, distance 46 miles. These planes had apparently come in at a low altitude and when first detected by Radar were observed to be climbing. Radio Electrician V.M. Bennett, USN, Radar Operator, estimated that there were between 30 and 40 planes in the attack group.
As soon as the enemy attack group was detected by Radar, the fueling of planes was discontinued and the sixteen VSB planes of Yorktown Attack Group, which were then in the landing circle, were directed to form a combat air patrol in order to clear the landing circle and the general area of own anti-aircraft gun fire. ----- All our fighters in the air were vectored out to intercept the enemy and did intercept at from 15 to 20 miles.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by FC99

I already addressed this so fix is ready for 4.12. But while we are at it what would be desired AI behavior in this situation. Currently, I have them stay in landing pattern unless they are directly attacked.

Very cool FC99. Raises a question: Does only the attacked plane take defensive action or does the wingman/pair begin to engage? Assuming already in the pattern for landing.

[Mundschenk]

Originally Posted by FC99

I already addressed this so fix is ready for 4.12. But while we are at it what would be desired AI behavior in this situation. Currently, I have them stay in landing pattern unless they are directly attacked.

In my opinion, if one plane flying in the landing circuit is attacked, or even better shortly before it is attacked, all fighters in the circuit should stop circling and engage the attackers. Maybe except those who are already preparing to land.

Gives me another idea: could it be possible to issue a radio command to the own AA protection of the airfield to prevent them from firing? I can't count the times I was shot down by friendly AA guns while closely chasing a fighter over my own airfield...

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by Mundschenk

In my opinion, if one plane flying in the landing circuit is attacked, or even better shortly before it is attacked, all fighters in the circuit should stop circling and engage the attackers. Maybe except those who are already preparing to land.

Gives me another idea: could it be possible to issue a radio command to the own AA protection of the airfield to prevent them from firing? I can't count the times I was shot down by friendly AA guns while closely chasing a fighter over my own airfield...

Sounds sensible, but don't count on it. Back then pilots didn't have comms with AA guns. For a fighter pilot to issue an order to ground AA guns batteries when and who they should fire at isn't terribly realistic, to say the least. However, it would be nice to see the AAA take things a bit easy when a friendly aircraft is within very close proximity to the guy they were shooting at.

Of course, like everything else, a lot depended on the individual gun crew's skill and experience levels, and they just might keep right on firing anyways, or even mistake you as an enemy aircraft and shoot at you until someone realizes the mistake and stops...

Happened a lot.

[X-Raptor]

Hi, 1st I congrats to all Daidalos Team for the work about 1946 they are offering to improve this game still.

just my observation: would be possible to stop A.I. behaviour that we can see many times A.I. climb almost vertically for a long time gaining altitude and JUST EXACTLY at the moment of stall they level the nose and then continue to fly orizontally ..as nothing happened .. THIS is really annoying and innatural .. and frustrating.. because A.I. using - I see OFTEN- this manevuer A.I. make a lot of cheat:
1) it use this quite innatural manover to evade from enemy (human or A.i.)
2) It use often this manover to jump from high to hit you or other A.I. planes.

Please can DAIDALOS TEAM LOOK to solve this?.

[SPAD-1949]

Originally Posted by X-Raptor

Hi, 1st I congrats to all Daidalos Team for the work about 1946 they are offering to improve this game still.

just my observation: would be possible to stop A.I. behaviour that we can see many times A.I. climb almost vertically for a long time gaining altitude and JUST EXACTLY at the moment of stall they level the nose and then continue to fly orizontally ..as nothing happened .. THIS is really annoying and innatural .. and frustrating.. because A.I. using - I see OFTEN- this manevuer A.I. make a lot of cheat:
1) it use this quite innatural manover to evade from enemy (human or A.i.)
2) It use often this manover to jump from high to hit you or other A.I. planes.

Please can DAIDALOS TEAM LOOK to solve this?.

Im an offliner and I've never seen this bahaviour.
Is this an online occurance?
AI cheats in other ways all through the enhancments of AI behaviour changes, but usually if they vert up until stall, they drop their noses and vert down until regain of controll.
Eventually it just looks alike, when you head onto them with intention for a kill lacking energy and starve in sight of them without proper situational awareness.
It sometimes looks líke that.
Eventually a energy superior AI opponent with good Situational awareness tricks you out, if he recognizes, that you are about to stall and breaks his vert up towards horizontal flight, because he has enough margin for that maneuver, but it must not look like a sharp hook.
Rather a mor or less slight curve.
Bf109s can do that if you sit in a mosca.

[X-Raptor]

..It occurred to me for example in a mission where there were il2 bombing p39 defending bombers vs 190 and 109 attacing (a kursk campaign extract). I see this behaviour in more than one 109 just like you said creating a "sharp hook" at the bottom of the vertical uber-dive of A.I.s planes.

[Pursuivant]

I just noticed this:

8 Average Ki-43 III vs. a "box" of 3 Veteran B-24J in QMB. 5000m over the Okinawa map. No advantage to either side.

The Ki-43 don't make head-on shots on the initial pass and don't make high-side attacks subsequently. Instead, they go for tail-chase attacks which are much more dangerous.

Even worse, the B-24 try to act like fighters! None of them stick together in formation and I actually saw one of them doing a barrel roll. All of them will try to turn to avoid much more nimble fighters, often pulling high-G turns that have the plane "standing on its wing."

Realistically, the bombers should tighten up their formation and possibly "jink" a bit when attacked. If one gets separated, it should "corkscrew" to try to spoil the attackers' aim while rejoining formation. Also, the rest of the formation should slow down to try to protect the damaged bomber as long as possible. As it is, by trying to maneuver like fighters, they seriously reduce the accuracy of their guns and give up the coordinated firepower of the "bomber box."

In real life, the sort of high-G turns I saw would also rip the bombs off their shackles and send them through the bomb bay doors.

It seems to me that, if it isn't already in the game, TD needs to have different AI for heavy bombers and similar planes (e.g., planes like the PBN or H8K) vs. smaller and faster attack bombers. Bombers also need different behavior routines for when they're loaded vs. unloaded.

Edit: Same behavior for B-17G and B-29. And, even when the U.S. heavies are loaded with bombs!

This is even more stupid behavior for a B-29 since they have the speed to outrun the Ki-43. They shouldn't be diving, turning and trying to dogfight. Instead, they should be keeping level, tightening formation and accelerating.