Are Lvl 5 Units viable anymore?

[ckdamascus]

I think Turn Back Time does not work on black dragons, but it should work on emerald dragons (if they are still in this game).

Oh yeah, inquisitors, demonologists, old rune mages were ones who could resurrect level 5s. (I don't think it worked on black dragons though).

HMMMM then this is highly viable since I can artificially keep a high amount of those guys around.

The problem is some of the level 4s have new secondary abilities and they are QUITE good.

For example: Humans gets "adapability" which raises their base stat by a bonus percentage based on how well you know the terrain! This makes Horsemen very ideal shock troopers.

Assassins reworked their "kill counter" bonus of Crossworlds to a "familiar enemy" bonus. If you keep killing undead armies, you will get a bonus to attack/defense against undead.

I'm curious if some of the level 5s have new abilities.

Furthermore, a lot of level 5s have 'strange' abilities which aren't quantifable in simple "most attack".

e.g. piercing - hitting two stacks at once, poison gas, massive aoe on everything on the screen, etc.

While the game is 'easier', I think it will be a lot more fun with different builds and money to let you do said builds.

Maybe it is time for me to pick up some Ogres and Inquisitors...

[Zechnophobe]

I'm level 36ish, and been using an all level 5 army for about 15 levels. Blue, green, red, black dragons, and cyclopses or trolls. Works fine. I'd say the biggest issue with it at the moment is finding enough dragons to fill your army. Only ever seen 3 ice dragons, and 7 black dragons. Luckily (maybe) Greenwort had more than a dozen each of red and green.

I rarely have to redo a fight when losing a dragon, mostly due to my own stupidity (lulz, shooting ice dragons with overhit of red or black... good one brain).

Considering that Creation Magic lets stoneskin cap out at 52% physical resist from 40, it is even easier to build infinitely tanky units.

[ckdamascus]

That is what I was afraid of. Not having enough units for me to fill up.

Greenwort, dragons? Where?!?! I thought I searched it and ... no dragons. Poo. I miss those things.

My first play through is a Viking for now, so no Creation Magic in my near future...

However, the Absolute Rage ability (chance to get 25% bonus to attack rating) is FAR more useful on a level 5 than on a lower level unit. Also, it is not that easy to get +60 attack over defense... I might have to re-crunch some numbers to see if Level 5s do have some sort of a future for me.

[Bhruic]

When you return items to the Prince Consort, he increases the variety of hires. I'm pretty sure it's static in what he offers too. First return you get reds? Second you get greens? It could be backwards, but you get them in one of the two directions.

[Xargon]

Originally Posted by Bhruic

When you return items to the Prince Consort, he increases the variety of hires. I'm pretty sure it's static in what he offers too. First return you get reds? Second you get greens? It could be backwards, but you get them in one of the two directions.

First return, I get blacks.
Regarding the dragon discussion: in previous KB games, I liked green dragons a lot, especially for a mage. Their second ability gives a ton of mana, and attacking without retaliation (maybe pulling enemies into traps) is nice as well. Fire attack would be better for greasy mist, but black dragons are impossible to resurrect (I guess?) and you can't cast stoneskin etc on them, so I never used them much as a mage. I think I had red dragons for a while and quite a bit of fun with them (and greasy mist, of course).

[redfuryau]

Dragons:

Blacks .. eh they're ok but their magic resistance hurts more than it helps imo. Give me a slightly weaker version that I can stoneskin/heal any day (see below..)

Greens. they're ok. Survivable enough with stoneskin/heal and the mana is nice but a little low on the damage.

Blues.. haven't tried 'em yet.

Reds .. are where it's at .. at least in previous games. I did quite a lot of impossible no-loss mage in AP with a single stack of red dragons.

Chuck a stoneskin on them, greasy mist a bunch of enemies and fly in and destroy .. works particularly well with fire-rains mixed in Seriously with high-crit, two-hex hit and greasy mist their damage output over 2-3 rounds can be just insane! At the end of a couple of rounds when your health has been whittled down .. 1 mana heal back to full health.

Sure you can't rez them but, with proper planning (particularly as a mage) you will never need to.

[camelotcrusade]

How many hit points are we talking? Would a max level sacrifice plus maidens to restore the sacrificial stack work? I've been growing my own level 4s for a while... all I need is one starter troop and my trusty sacrificial dagger (courtesy of the spell). There are so many weak fights I look forward to them because it's safe to grow more troops.

Hmm. Are royal thorns level 5? If they are then it works on them just fine. I get two a pop, and that's with level 2 sacrifice (haven't blown the crystals yet to upgrade it to 3... ouch). I'm a skald, too, so I'm not really the ubermage.

[tiberiu]

are lvl 5 units viable?

Yes, because Trolls are lvl 5 units.

[namad]

Originally Posted by camelotcrusade

How many hit points are we talking? Would a max level sacrifice plus maidens to restore the sacrificial stack work? I've been growing my own level 4s for a while... all I need is one starter troop and my trusty sacrificial dagger (courtesy of the spell). There are so many weak fights I look forward to them because it's safe to grow more troops.

Hmm. Are royal thorns level 5? If they are then it works on them just fine. I get two a pop, and that's with level 2 sacrifice (haven't blown the crystals yet to upgrade it to 3... ouch). I'm a skald, too, so I'm not really the ubermage.

royal thorns are level 4. you can't use level 1 sacrifice spell to create new ogres, nor new ice dragons, nor new royal thorns. just now tested it.


my theory is that sacrifice cannot create new plants NOR new level 5 units. (note you can create ice spiders via sacrifice so ice creation ability doesn't prevent sacrifice, this being an ability the ice dragon also has).


I've always loved thorns but the fact you can't using sacrifice or healing magic on them AND they're always rare in stores means it can be hard to use them all game long. or impossible.

[marc]

Originally Posted by namad

royal thorns are level 4. you can't use level 1 sacrifice spell to create new ogres, nor new ice dragons, nor new royal thorns. just now tested it.


my theory is that sacrifice cannot create new plants NOR new level 5 units. (note you can create ice spiders via sacrifice so ice creation ability doesn't prevent sacrifice, this being an ability the ice dragon also has).


I've always loved thorns but the fact you can't using sacrifice or healing magic on them AND they're always rare in stores means it can be hard to use them all game long. or impossible.

I use lvl 1 sacrifice all the time to make new green dragons and archdemons, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. In fact, with a lvl 3 sacrifice, I can easily get 5 dragons a pop (at 60 int) as a mage.