Thoughts about Friday's update

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by zapatista

- september 2012 luthier confirms that there will only be one further bug fixing patch together with the further improved gfx engine work. after that BoM will contain any further fixes and can then be installed over CoD. luthier also indicates that the continuation of the whole SoW series will depend on the success of BoM, eg if these sales are NOT good within the first 6 months and they generate positive reviews to recoup their high standing in the sim market (which was going to be opened to 3e party designers of planes and scenery etc, remember ?), then they might have to close shop completely. this is something many people here fail to grasp !

I think a lot of us grasp this concept just fine. I just think most of us don't care any more. Right now, we don't have a working sim and a vaporware sequel. If they go out of business, we'll still have a broken sim and no sequel. Status quo.

If they go out of business it's their own fault. It's not the community's responsibility to keep them afloat financially. It's MG's responsibility to deliver a product that is worth paying for, and to keep themselves afloat. So far, they have failed miserably to do that. The abysmal state of CoD has already used up all MG's good will, and if the sequel isn't stellar then I won't be purchasing.

if you (and the others here) like flight sims ? want a chance to ever get a decent next gen ww2 flight sim ?[B]

You're acting like if MG goes under then WW2 flight sims will end forever. This is demonstrably false. DCS could release a 190-D to fight against their P-51D and I'd wager 70% of the community would be happy with that.

[Feathered_IV]

Clod/BoB was originally planned for release in 2007, after missing it's 2006 deadline. It certainly wasn't released a year early by any stretch of the truth.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

Clod/BoB was originally planned for release in 2007, after missing it's 2006 deadline. It certainly wasn't released a year early by any stretch of the truth.

and the relevance to you quoting old delays re "the current situation" is what exactly ?

with the team still under direction of Oleg up to the last 6 months before the forced release (eg up to sept 2010) they knew they had major problems in meeting that date and would need significantly more time (prob about 1 yr, by my guesstimate). most here will remember the anticipated release date of early 2011 (which was already a slipped date from what they intended to be a sept/oct 2010 release, indicated by the memorable oleg statement in 2009 of " by the anniversary of BoB 1000's would be playing it"). the money people put their foot down and forced a release, oleg left, and luthier took over to try and save the sinking ship. that series of events was the "forced premature release of an unfinished product" that would have been in much better shape if they had the extra year, which is not the same as some changed fluid timelines in a reasonably well funded long term project that kept postponing completion while they got ever more ambitious and kept adding in new elements

[Feathered_IV]

Originally Posted by zapatista

and the relevance to you quoting old delays re "the current situation" is what exactly ?

It's all cumulative. We are talking about the same Battle of Britain game which was initially announced for 2006. Just because it still wasn't ready in 2011 does not mean it was released a year early. It means it was still incomplete when it was five years late.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

It's all cumulative. We are talking about the same Battle of Britain game which was initially announced for 2006. Just because it still wasn't ready in 2011 does not mean it was released a year early. It means it was still incomplete when it was five years late.

no it isnt
as you already know, the 2006 delay was related to the major staff changes in their team at the time, and Oleg then announcing they were rebuilding large parts of the BoB gfx and game engine from scratch. was that frustrating for us as eager fans, sure, but the 2006 gfx and game engine content has very little to do with the 2011 released product.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

I think a lot of us grasp this concept just fine. I just think most of us don't care any more.

those that dont care shouldnt be here exacerbating the problem.

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

we don't have a working sim and a vaporware sequel.

and your point is ? basically all events in the future have always a degree of uncertainty with them, but then without planing and working towards it none would ever exist or be created. being here to complain about the past (which they already stated is not being addressed) is pointless, being here to complain about the future is just irrational. for those who just operate on a reactive emotional level it is expressed as constant whining and moaning, for those operating on a more rational constructive approach its a matter of trying to see what can be done to improve the odds in it being improved and fixed (yes, sadly that will be slowly, another cause for possible frustration)

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

If they go out of business it's their own fault. .

yeps, but you can either increase or decrease those odds. by only focusing on the negative and constant whining (not you personally) people just increase the chances of failure. and that last bit can make all the difference in gradually letting the sim series recover, or making it more likely to fail (again not you personally, but in general by those purely focusing on the negatives)

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

It's not the community's responsibility to keep them afloat financially.

whatever you have paid so far just allowed them to continue, if you are so dissatisfied with the brand then move on and cut your losses because nothing will happen to reverse that. and if you dont want to buy BoM at release, dont, just wait 6 months for the reviews to come out and the first patches to be delivered, and then make up your mind. that is quite a different response then some of the people who deliberately come here to undermine its further development

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

You're acting like if MG goes under then WW2 flight sims will end forever. This is demonstrably false. DCS could release a 190-D to fight against their P-51D and I'd wager 70% of the community would be happy with that.

your logic is confusing.
on the one hand you are willfully disregarding anything positive about the current SoW series (of which you currently own a beta) which is a tangible product you already have in your hands and know the near future development line off (BoM), and which is something you can directly contribute to (no, not in money) by providing constructive feedback, but on the other hand you are willing to put all your eggs into the one basket hoping for some vague distant project that doesnt even exist (based on rumors) and that might or might not manifest ? to me that sequence of logic just does not compute. why not help support current development that you can, and hope for the best for all the others ? that would make more sense to me.

the DCS p51 project is the most promising, but just one look at the low rez ground textures and scenery content, and then comparing it to what already works in CoD (err the french scenery in partic ) shows how different the focus of those 2 products is. having a jet sim with poor low altitude scenery is one thing, but for ww2 prop sims this is very important (and is the big killer in gfx engine design)

comparing those, you have an existing one half of one product (CoD) versus pure speculation and wishful thinking of several other "potentials" (none of which are even in development). btw, even DCS makes people pay for their beta stage, so expect no instant finished product there any time soon all those here that long awaited the il2 sequel are frustrated, including me, but right now it boils down to what direction we want the scales to tip in. i know where tree stands in that regard, and i greatly prefer to make some small contributions to increase the likelihood of SoW becoming a reality, of which part of the outcome is directly in our hands.

[Lurker_71]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

[...]

You're acting like if MG goes under then WW2 flight sims will end forever. This is demonstrably false. DCS could release a 190-D to fight against their P-51D and I'd wager 70% of the community would be happy with that.

+1

[klem]

Good post zapista ( http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...&postcount=125 )

Many people here don't or won't grasp the reality of the current situation. Their frustration, like mine, is understandable but the continuous unrelenting complaining about the same things won't change anything and as you say will deter newcomers from the series. Everyone knows CoD was full of problems on release and everyone knows not everything will be fixed but it is still here and so are 1C MG.

I have just two concerns now:

1. The FMs for the CoD aircraft must be improved and that is all it will take to make CoD unique aspects acceptable because all core improvements will be overlaid by the sequel (they could also release some of those as a patch later on for 'CoD only' users). I'm not an off-line player and I understand the campaigns are lousy (?) but that is something the community can fix and would have to anyway once people got bored with the out-of-the-box campaigns.

2. You talked about a bug tracker, well as you also said we have one already but the devs don't read it. It was a fairly clean tracker with objective reporting mostly substantiated by in-game and historical evidence. It was mostly free of the usual ping-pong attacks and ego mongering (probably because certain people couldn't be bothered with real testing or providing such factual detail). It was prioritised by the community (how else would you prioritise it?) and for a while they took notice but BlackSix has confirmed that they don't look at it now, possibly because, as you say, their minds are really on BoM. And that is where my second concern comes in, they aren't listening to us except in patch bug threads which quickly deteriorate into the usual scumbag arguments and get abandoned by 1C and of course they are reluctant to say anything on a regular basis because they just get attacked and insulted all the time. In short, its the community's own damn fault and it isn't doing us any good.

Finally, I can't help noticing that some of the biggest critics don't even own the game or have abandoned it and no longer play it but still come here and use the forum as their own personal playground for creating mischief in something they are not really interested in. Except for their own entertainment or egotism.

[laBonj]

Originally Posted by klem

Finally, I can't help noticing that some of the biggest critics don't even own the game or have abandoned it and no longer play it but still come here and use the forum as their own personal playground for creating mischief in something they are not really interested in. Except for their own entertainment or egotism.

Agreed completely! Despite the current situation, I think the vast negativity on this forum doesn't always help things. I think even with it's many problems, I can still spend an evening with the game and have a good time!

[Von Crapenhauser]

Agreed
Since i started play it has improved no end.