ATAG Dedicated Server is up!

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by Robo.

Why do you think that? Because it's shooting at you? Bofors has had effective ranges of 3500 yards (cca 3200m) and it certainly attempted to shoot at targets above 1000m. I understand you're reporting this issue from the playability point of view but even in the sim the chance you get hit is lesser if you're further away from the gun. You know there is AA on the airfields and there is AA protecting the targets. Just don't fly down there in these areas. If you do, you're likely to be hit. That's the price for catching the low flying RAF taking off or landing. Pretty fair and realistic I'd say.

I don't know anything about mission making and I appreciate what notafinger! said about blocks of AA guns and their amounts, but I don't see anything wrong with the gun range. Just my opinion of course.

So what your saying is, Im vulching and deserve what I get. Im Vulching if I go below 3.5km?


Im sticking to this:

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

In continuation with my discussion with ATAG Colander, I would like to add:

The sheer amount of Bofors on the ATAG maps makes the server unenjoyable for me and my squad mates.

There are in fact so many AA guns I actually cant remember the last time I was lagitimatley shot down by another human pilot. Please do not take this as bragging, I am at best an average pilot, this is a sincere and just statement.

The AA guns, as far as I beleive, were placed to prevent "vulching" with special regard to a pilot by the name of alambash. Considering I have not seen him online for some considerable time and all 100 octane fighters are airspawning this means that currently vulching on the red side is impossible on red fighters!

Furthermore as has been stated by ATAG on many occasions if you are getting "vulched" then you should move to a different airfield, get on comms, dont get mad and get even! - there are no rules on ATAG except that everyone must respect one another.

Yet ATAG seem also to want to balance the game and as such are influencing the way that the game is played upon their server. By having so many AA guns the best red fighter tactic is to stay on the deck over England and use the AA as a weapon not themselves - knowing that we blue fighters cannot engage with red pilots (as the game is for!) with out having to come to them and be damaged by AA so that they inturn may finish the process and claim victory over a blue pilot. A false victory.

Please understand this not an attack on anyone, nor ATAG nor red fighter pilots, but a perspective of a Blue fighter pilot who wishes to enjoy this simulator and the ATAG server but cannot due to this machanic which is shaping the events as I mentioned above.

I would also like to salute the red pilots who have something about them to fly not only exclusively over England but to come to the neutral ground of the channel and beyond into our terrortory where they too face the same redicoulous prospect of being hammered by the AA in the same way as do we Blue pilots when over England. What joy it brings me when the reds attack us for a change or we engage each other over the channel!

If the AA was as good in real life as it is in this game then England would not have needed RAF fighter command! The whole purpose of this sim, I am sure you will agree, is to emulate the Battle of Britian. The ATAG server has about 9 Bofors for ever active airfield. Im am confident without checking that there are more Bofors than in the actually real war where they did not engage with even half the range of the current bofors in game.

Please address this problem before I cannot anymore find myself to use you server.

S!

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

So what your saying is, Im vulching and deserve what I get. Im Vulching if I go below 3.5km?

No, I didn't say any of that (vulching & deserving) at all.

All I am saying is that 3.5km Bofors radius around the airfield seems to be reasonable to me (again, my opinion only). I said stay away from the well defended areas because that's what I would do.

[Steuben]

As a pilot that is doing jabo missions with 110 and 109E3 b and 4 b i can absolutly say the AA is deadly. Its very hard to make it back in one peace when doing low level bombing.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

Two questions guys

1. JU-88 can't create with two other AI pilots ?...only myself with my one bomber, instead of three, me and two AI aircraft

2. why do my engines smoke black so bad, on startup and warming up.

I'm new to the CEM for the 88, thanks for the tips

1. There is a despawn script running on the server to prevent overloading it. What this means is that any aircraft that is not piloted by a human player will automatically disappear after a while.

2. If you keep your RPM too low you get the black smoke (maybe the injection system doesn't work that well at idle and you get too rich mixture). Try idling at a bit higher throttle, the aircraft is heavy enough to stay in place. If my memory serves me right about 7%-8% throttle solves the problem, which is just a touch of the levers forward.


On the matter of flak now...

I fly bombers or something that carries a bomb 90% of the time (on either team) and i actually like the flak. It forces me to make interesting tactical decisions that drive me to more realistic gameplay behaviors.

Get that Blen up to 4000ft to level bomb and lose some accuracy but defeat all the low-alt rapid firing flak, or make a dive bombing run for increased accuracy and run the gauntlet?

Loiter over the enemy areas in search of targets taking off/landing and risk the flak, or fly higher and bounce them while they climb out?

etc, etc.

If anything, i think the flak is actually pretty ineffective at deterrence (i don't expect it to be the main aircraft killer in the sim, but i expect me to feel some respect for it).

Sure, with some mission profiles it's 99% certain that i'll get shot down (eg, low altitude pass or multiple passes over the target) but even then it's usually because i hang around to see the result of the impacts. In fact, i think there hasn't been a single case where flak has succeeded in defending a target. No matter what, even if i get damage i'm always able to swoop in and drop bombs on the target. And we're talking a single aircraft here, without wingmen or bomber formations to spread the flak out among more players.

I've managed to destroyer the Oye Plage target in one pass in a Blenheim and i've done the same to the armory target in G7 with an 88. Flak be damned, i'ma dropping mah bombs and that's the end of the story

Something similar happens with the ships as well. I can take a 110 and make 10 consecutive sorties that will play out exactly the same. I will skim the waves at 450km/h, sink two ships per run and pick up a Spit or two that will be circling way too low to be able to accelerate in a dive and stop me in time. From that point on it depends on how persistent they are. If they keep following me they'll catch up somewhere over France and if i have no friendlies nearby they'll shoot me down, otherwise i will land back home. In the meantime, the ships are not covered and another 110 is sinking two more of them

I think the problem is that we are forced into artificial balancing through mission design, because we don't have the tools yet that would allow the players to do it on the fly (literally).

If bombers could reliably level bomb (most bombsights are currently bugged), the 109s would be up there escorting them and wouldn't need to play "look at me, i'm over Hawkinge" to get a fight. Then it would make sense to punish the ones that do it by making the flak really deadly. Similarly, the RAF would have a real target and would go up there to tangle with them, especially if the availability of 100 octane fighters depended on not getting its oil refineries and storage facilities bombed to smithereens.

For this to happen however, we need bombers that can level bomb, scripts and FMB triggers that work as intended and the netcode to run all these things reliably. In the meantime we just make do with artificial balancing decisions and these will have advantages and drawbacks. My take on things is just use what's available, enjoy what works and learn whatever i can, then when things get fixed it will be much easier to adapt to the new way of doing things

[ATAG_Colander]

Well said Blackdog.
As I stated before, let's wait for the game to be fixed before we worry about smaller issues.

[Flanker35M]

S!

I have no problem with flak on ATAG server. As stated above plan your attack so the exposure to the flak is minimal and as it takes a while for them to "wake up" = get in and out fast. Doing so you are most times out of harm's way when they start shooting, at least the Bofors Heavy flak is just a nuisance pointing out your general location. If you enter a target with someone already on it then you can be sure flak responds faster as it is already triggered. Or am I wrong?

Another thing is that if you vulch then suck it up when dying Flak is awake and waiting by then and you are well within their engagement envelope while circling the field at low altitude and slow speed.

Thanks ATAG again for enjoyable moments Was fun!

[CaptainDoggles]

Phew!

Keller, Colander, Lolsav, Ernst, Chasing Fear and myself just had one seriously awesome sortie.

We all took off piecemeal but eventually met up over Folkestone and flew in a really nice formation for a while which made for nice screenshot opportunities.

Shortly thereafter, BigTrout was hitting targets at low altitude near Manston so we all made our way over there and, using teamspeak to maintain our SA, proceeded to smack down a whole bunch of spitfires (and also a single 100-octane hurri). Oddly enough the Red guys kept spawning underneath us and trying to climb up through the dogfight, so we never really lost the advantage until some of the 71st guys came in from a different airfield.

Eventually it was just me and poor Keller who'd done most of the dragging (and none of the bagging). I can't remember if he got a kill at the end or not, but kudos to Keller for being a good team player.

Big thanks to all you guys for a fun sortie, and ATAG for hosting.


EDIT: Also, I got razzed a lot because I ran into a Wellington that I swear was invisible.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

On the matter of flak now...

Flak is not AA... if this was in refrence to what I mentione earlier - there is a diffrence.


Today I challanged the RAF the to come up to altitude - AND THEY DID! AWESOME!

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Flak is not AA... if this was in refrence to what I mentione earlier - there is a diffrence.


Today I challanged the RAF the to come up to altitude - AND THEY DID! AWESOME!

Despite the usual tactic of swirling around on the deck, I've noticed some serious RAF presence at altitude of late. The =AN= guys have been climbing up to where the Spit outperforms the 109 and then using team tactics to dominate.

I try to stay away if I don't have a wingman

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Today I challanged the RAF the to come up to altitude - AND THEY DID! AWESOME!

You don't have to challenge anyone, we fly high regardless of your silly remarks in the chatline.