Fresh stuff from sukhoi.ru (Discussion)

[philip.ed]

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I think you are confused.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...pen#post113731

The first version (in the DVD video which accompanied 1946) was made on an Open-GL engine, based on Il-2. They then scrapped this and started from fresh.

Oleg himself said:

We initially wanted to make Battle of Britain on the Il-2 engine. However that would be the last thing we could do with it. And then what? The engine was beginning to show its age by that time, despite many revolutionary features which Il-2 brought to the genre in 2001, and which many developers have tried to replicate since. By 2005 we’ve finally realized that we had to build a new engine. First only one person worked on it, then two, all while continuing to work on Il-2 as well. We’ve really switched over to BoB only after all work on Il-2 was completed, i.e. in 2007. So BoB’s only been in development for 2 years now.

But don't let this fool you into thinking the change had happened by 2005. It was most likely 2007 when they scrapped the first build, which was the video we saw on the Il-2 DVD (hence the similarities between the two).


I just had to add this as well (completely unrelated) from the same 2009 interview with Oleg:

Q: Oleg, we have some intel that the next add-on after BoB will be the Mediterranean. Can you let us know how soon that’ll be released? And another even more important question: how soon after BoB can we expect the Eastern Front again, and what are you planning for it?

A: Your intel is nothing but a rumor. Even I myself don’t know whether it’ll be Africa or something else. Everything depends on the success of BoB on the market. Of course, no one has done a comprehensive MTO sim, save for a few unfinished or unsuccessful attempts. Eastern Front or the Pacific will perhaps be the most difficult to develop out of all options. So you should probably not expect to fly Soviet planes immediately after BoB.




Also this:

Q: Let’s go back to BoB maps once again. This is a very exciting topic. How will they be different from Il-2 maps?

A: First of all, they will be more detailed. This means all sorts of small details you will notice in flight, with terrain, buildings, roads, etc. Not exactly on topic of maps, but we’ll also have moving grass. Secondly, we will have dynamic weather. This is actually on topic of maps. Even though the weather is handled by a separate weather module, it’ll be tied into the gameplay maps and affected by topography. Thirdly, we’ll have more detailed coastlines. We’ll now have cliffs, not just flat painted textures, but with real elevation. Next, our roads will have smooth curves of various profiles, which will immediately make the terrain look more realistic. In conjunction with new photorealistic textures, new technologies, new light and shading, all of the above will work together to create something that from the air looks really, really close to reality.


I think this is where the doomed 'promises' arose from. He wasn't far wrong, though. It will get there.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Oleg himself said:

We initially wanted to make Battle of Britain on the Il-2 engine. However that would be the last thing we could do with it. And then what? The engine was beginning to show its age by that time, despite many revolutionary features which Il-2 brought to the genre in 2001, and which many developers have tried to replicate since. By 2005 we’ve finally realized that we had to build a new engine. First only one person worked on it, then two, all while continuing to work on Il-2 as well. We’ve really switched over to BoB only after all work on Il-2 was completed, i.e. in 2007. So BoB’s only been in development for 2 years now.

Oleg must have been confused when he said that in 03-04-2009..

Becuase that means CoD was only under dev for 4 years before it was released..

5 years if you count the time they have been working on it since it's release..

But..

There are several forum members here stating that CoD has been under dev for 8+ years before it was released!

9 if you count the year they have been working on it since it's release

And god knows they know better than Oleg!

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Oleg must have been confused when he said that in 03-04-2009..

Becuase that means CoD was only under dev for 4 years before it was released..

5 years if you count the time they have been working on it since it's release..

But..

There are several forum members here stating that CoD has been under dev for 8+ years before it was released!

9 if you count the year they have been working on it since it's release

And god knows they know better than Oleg!

Agreed 100% Ace.

The sim has been in development for a long time (since at least 2005, so some 8 years) but the game we're playing today is really only 4 years old or more. It has a lot of the first build present, but really I think it's easy to underestimate the complexities of using a new engine for the first time.


@Chivas, that quote from Oleg on the cliffs is interesting. See the video from the 1946 DVD, and the Cliffs there look quite poor compared to what we have now. So they went ahead and started work, but then changed? They should have released it as an expansion for Il-2 to keep us busy! aha

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Must be that new whiner math?

[SiThSpAwN]

If you carry the 2 it all adds up....

[FG28_Kodiak]

Can a Mod please cleanup this thread. I only interested in news from Sukhoi (like the thread title) and not on this boring sensless needless Monologs.

[furbs]

If you start development a sim in 2004 but then start again in 2008 because what you made so far wasn't good enough it still counts as development, you think they got the development money back for the 4 years they wasted?

[BlackSix]

Friday Update will be this evening.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by furbs

If you start development a sim in 2004 but then start again in 2008 because what you made so far wasn't good enough it still counts as development, you think they got the development money back for the 4 years they wasted?

From 2004 to 2008 there were only a couple of guys working on SOW. Most of Oleg's crew were helping Luthier finish Pacific Fighters which had expanded from Luthier's work on a single aircraft carrier to a full addon. Then they continued work on further addons for the old IL-2 engine in those years up to IL-2 1946 release.

I was under the impression from Olegs first statements on BOB that he was going to use a new game engine, but apparently he may have been trying to wring more features out of the old engine until late in 2004 which didn't work out. This is speculation derived from a Luthiers quote in 2009, which states they decided to build a new game engine in 2005, although Luthier was busy working on Pacific Fighters at that time not BOB and may have still been living in the states. In May of 2005 Oleg said SOW was using a new game engine, but he didn't state when they decided that.

I know they were having problems changing things with the old engine because it was hard to find and change code embedded in one big mass of code. This may be part of the reason they wrote the new game engine with a Modular system. Where each major aspect like Graphics had there own module which was easier to find and change without effecting unrelated code as much. Makes me wonder if these modules cause problems themselves, like the special drivers need to combine two graphic cards, to display on scene without stutters.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I think you are confused.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...pen#post113731

The first version (in the DVD video which accompanied 1946) was made on an Open-GL engine, based on Il-2. They then scrapped this and started from fresh.

Oleg himself said:

We initially wanted to make Battle of Britain on the Il-2 engine. However that would be the last thing we could do with it. And then what? The engine was beginning to show its age by that time, despite many revolutionary features which Il-2 brought to the genre in 2001, and which many developers have tried to replicate since. By 2005 we’ve finally realized that we had to build a new engine. First only one person worked on it, then two, all while continuing to work on Il-2 as well. We’ve really switched over to BoB only after all work on Il-2 was completed, i.e. in 2007. So BoB’s only been in development for 2 years now.

But don't let this fool you into thinking the change had happened by 2005. It was most likely 2007 when they scrapped the first build, which was the video we saw on the Il-2 DVD (hence the similarities between the two).


I just had to add this as well (completely unrelated) from the same 2009 interview with Oleg:

Q: Oleg, we have some intel that the next add-on after BoB will be the Mediterranean. Can you let us know how soon that’ll be released? And another even more important question: how soon after BoB can we expect the Eastern Front again, and what are you planning for it?

A: Your intel is nothing but a rumor. Even I myself don’t know whether it’ll be Africa or something else. Everything depends on the success of BoB on the market. Of course, no one has done a comprehensive MTO sim, save for a few unfinished or unsuccessful attempts. Eastern Front or the Pacific will perhaps be the most difficult to develop out of all options. So you should probably not expect to fly Soviet planes immediately after BoB.




Also this:

Q: Let’s go back to BoB maps once again. This is a very exciting topic. How will they be different from Il-2 maps?

A: First of all, they will be more detailed. This means all sorts of small details you will notice in flight, with terrain, buildings, roads, etc. Not exactly on topic of maps, but we’ll also have moving grass. Secondly, we will have dynamic weather. This is actually on topic of maps. Even though the weather is handled by a separate weather module, it’ll be tied into the gameplay maps and affected by topography. Thirdly, we’ll have more detailed coastlines. We’ll now have cliffs, not just flat painted textures, but with real elevation. Next, our roads will have smooth curves of various profiles, which will immediately make the terrain look more realistic. In conjunction with new photorealistic textures, new technologies, new light and shading, all of the above will work together to create something that from the air looks really, really close to reality.


I think this is where the doomed 'promises' arose from. He wasn't far wrong, though. It will get there.

Yes I know remember the quote of the opengl, DX debate. Oleg first annouced BOB in 2003/2004 for a release at the end of 2005, which I thought he said they would use a new 3d engine. I couldn't find Olegs quotes from that time period, but there was some Oleg quotes in May 2005 which mention the new 3D engine.

------------------------------------------
Tom: The Battle of Britain has been rendered either in whole or as part of quite a few games from CFS1 to EAW to Rowan's and Shockwave / GMX's Battle of Britain. In the IL-2 series you never really concentrated on this aerial battle. What compelled you to look at this battle in particular?


Oleg: In IL-2 series we didn't model it because we were planning to get new 3D engine and new fundamental features before to begin this process. In IL-2 series is too hard to model Cliffs of Dover looking real. As you know me, I like to get such things always looking well and natural.
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http://www.simhq.com/_air6/air_220a.html
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Other SimHQ interviews with Oleg Maddox see bottom of last page.


http://www.simhq.com/_air11/air_341e.html

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But don't let this fool you into thinking the change had happened by 2005. It was most likely 2007 when they scrapped the first build, which was the video we saw on the Il-2 DVD (hence the similarities between the two).
End Quote-------------

You are probably right they thought about building the sim on the old engine in 2004/2005 as we know now they couldn't have built a new game engine for BOBs release by the end of 2005. That said I think they were building the new game engine long before 2007, but the changes you see could be the change to Speedtree, or they were still using the old game engine to build aspects of the sim until the new game engine was more usable.