To All You COOP LOVERS!!!

[ATAG_Doc]

I am trying to really figure out what this is all about. And I am being as sincere as possible.

I never was involved unfortunately with prior versions of IL2 so this is likely to my detriment in understanding what this need is all about.

I asked and asked and asked to please help me understand what is it these people want that isn't already there. I even offered my support in this on ATAG but I still really don't know what the heck it is exactly.

This weekend we had 30 vs 30 on comms and trying to complete an objective based mission to knock out the targets with fighter escorts. This was the most awesome example of coop in my understanding of the term.

I keep getting this impression that a coop is a very stringent set of parameters by which you will participate in the mission. If that means that any single person cannot join in on the server and do whatever they want to do then that would be a huge step backward.

I cannot think of anything more unattractive then to have someone pigeonhole me into some aspect of a mission. I will do what I want to do.

During the weekend mission mentioned above in that single mission I flew bombers and fighters during that one mission that lasted for hours.

But again I cannot think of anything more unattractive than being in some setting like a kid carnival ride on rails where you go though this and that next and this and you're all done here's the score.

Sounds like coops are for control freaks. They need to be validated I guess.

P.S. Seriously I never get a answer that is to the point what it is. What I get is >> walks in don't see coop >>> walks out - what is it!!!

[mxmadman]

Well, a coop mission, by my definition, is player versus a.i. only first of all. Second, it has a determined starting time so that pilots are able to fly in formation in a semi-organised way without waiting for folks who do not arrive on time or for any other reason. Third (this is more as it relates to ATAG server to give a direct comparison) it is not just several bomber objectives placed around the map, but an actual mission with varying conditions that must be met in order to succeed.

Now, this is not to say ATAG is wrong in any way, but it is not what people are asking for when they request coop.

Edit: obviously it is known that these things are possible with the toolset we have, however it requires all of the following:
1) map made, mission coded, and tested, by players
2) a server to host it on
3) recruitment/advertisement to get folks who would not otherwise know of its existence
4) precise planning and outside-of-game briefing to ensure folks know what to do, as current in-game briefing doesn't seem to suffice (can you get pictures in briefings? I'm not sure)

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by mxmadman

Well, a coop mission, by my definition, is player versus a.i. only first of all. Second, it has a determined starting time so that pilots are able to fly in formation in a semi-organised way without waiting for folks who do not arrive on time or for any other reason. Third (this is more as it relates to ATAG server to give a direct comparison) it is not just several bomber objectives placed around the map, but an actual mission with varying conditions that must be met in order to succeed.

Now, this is not to say ATAG is wrong in any way, but it is not what people are asking for when they request coop.

Ok fair enough.

Let me ask. In a typical scenario can any user join in while the mission is on going and do whatever they wish? Don't have to ready up and do a countdown like XBOX would make you do?

I really do not know. I am trying to figure out what it is before I start asking for it. There are a lot of people that are new to IL-2 since CoD was released that have not played the old IL-2 so to them coop is strictly having you (the other player) cooperate with the mission objective.

[mxmadman]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Doc

Ok fair enough.

Let me ask. In a typical scenario can any user join in while the mission is on going and do whatever they wish? Don't have to ready up and do a countdown like XBOX would make you do?

I really do not know. I am trying to figure out what it is before I start asking for it. There are a lot of people that are new to IL-2 since CoD was released that have not played the old IL-2 so to them coop is strictly having you (the other player) cooperate with the mission objective.

I would very much like the countdown and ready-up, because it ensures everyone starts at the same time, but I assure you Xbox was not the first to do this.

[furbs]

In world war 2, a mission generally went like this...

The squadron would be given a brief, note the waypoints, height and loadout.
Then they would take off as a squadron, follow their leader to the target or area(to CAP), or meet the bombers if on a escort mission.

They would try to complete the mission and return to base.

A COOP mission tries to simulate this as close as possible.

This is what we want for CLOD.

Doc, i get it you dont want to fly COOP's but others do.
DFS have there place, i enjoy the ATAG server when i fly there, but i also want to fly COOP's.

Can you understand that?

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by furbs

In world war 2, a mission generally went like this...

The squadron would be given a brief, note the waypoints, height and loadout.
Then they would take off as a squadron, follow their leader to the target or area(to CAP), or meet the bombers if on a escort mission.

They would try to complete the mission and return to base.

A COOP mission tries to simulate this as close as possible.

This is what we want for CLOD.

Doc, i get it you dont want to fly COOP's but others do.
DFS have there place, i enjoy the ATAG server when i fly there, but i also want to fly COOP's.

Can you understand that?

No no no no please don't misunderstand me. This sounds cool to me it does sounds like fun. But I just want to know is there a condition where you have to all start at the same time and is the mission locked? I mean you cannot join if its already in progress? And if it isn't locked can I do whatever I want?

P.S. Ok so I finally connect the dots and DFS is dog fight server. So I think I am understanding you more. I just want an answer to my questions above.

[SlipBall]

Locked I'm sure once it starts...plus you may need to be in a squad

[Thee_oddball]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Doc

No no no no please don't misunderstand me. This sounds cool to me it does sounds like fun. But I just want to know is there a condition where you have to all start at the same time and is the mission locked? I mean you cannot join if its already in progress? And if it isn't locked can I do whatever I want?

P.S. Ok so I finally connect the dots and DFS is dog fight server. So I think I am understanding you more. I just want an answer to my questions above.

once COOP starts mission is locked.

p.s it can be player VS player VS AI

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by Thee_oddball

once COOP starts mission is locked.

p.s it can be player VS player VS AI

Man I don't know if I like that idea. But I understand how squads would like it and desire it. I totally can see that. But we can only be as real as what it is.

I tend to do work from home sometimes and I literally have to make time for this and I do. I'd be very turned off if I opened a beer and settled my butt into my chair and tried to get in some airtime only to find out the server is locked.

But this is where I part ways with the whole idea of coops. I'm not against the game having it. I just want to be able to sleep late and join up when I am ready and not when others are. I'm kinda lazy.

[JG53_Valantine]

Doc,

The main thing for Co-ops is taht it sets everything up and starts everyone at the same time: not great for ATAG as ATAG is a dogfight server: even if it has missions / objectives and teamwork it is still an old IL2 styled Dogfight server game-mode wise. (admittedly with AI spawns etc. although modded IL2 46 had this with the Moving Dogfight Server stuff)

Co-Ops on the other hand are missions where X number of pilots join the mission at the same time: select their aircraft, loadouts and read the breifing before the host then hits "start" everyone is started where they aircraft they selected was palced: be it in the air or on the ground. This is a CO-OP server and can be either human vs human or human vs AI or a mixture of both on each side. They are extremely useful for Co-Op squads and were a very popular part of the old IL2 mix that is sorely lacking in CloD. Both Dogfight servers and Co-op servers have their advantages and disadvantages, however to not have that option is really a reversal of many years of progress in lots of people's eyes.

Sometimes you WANT everyone to be in the mission and "starting" at the same time, exactly where you placed their aircraft: these tend to be pre-organised things either on a squad level, online war level or even just a historical scenario (Take the 633 mossie mission that ran on hyperlobby frequently: NOW THAT was great fun and a fully co-operative experience that simply wouldn't work on the dogfight map) - Dogfight maps are great for those who want to jump on when they can: be it for a bit of "air-quake fly/gun/die/rinse & repeat stuff" or for an objective based "mission" but very poor for other things like a co-ordinated start, historical missions, co-op squadrons etc.

Sure: keep the dogfight server in CloD the way it is (as in IL2 46 MDS Moving Dogfight Server) but give us a proper Co-Op interface as well: it's not as if we are asking for all online experiences to be Co-Op only - we just want the option we used to have without spending hours messing around with scripting before we can even get missions in - time is limited for lots of us as it is.

So adding Co-Ops isn't "a step abckwards" in any shape or form: it is just giving us more options for us to enjoy the online experience.
V

Doc,

to add in: it really may help if you pick up a copy of IL2 46 and just spend an hour or two playing about with the co-op mode and you'll understand it. Trying to explain it is a little like trying to explain how the combustion engine works to an uncontacted tribesman: no matter how much you say it's like, or it does it is doubtful they will get the full picture.
V