Friday Update, April 13, 2012

[David Hayward]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Which doesn't give an accurate colour representation. Google it.

It's close enough. Google it.

Originally Posted by philip.ed

It doesn't explain the lack of hedgerows, colours, field shapes etc which were pasted in bucket-loads on this forum anyway.

Yeah, that's just a tragic oversight in a FLIGHT SIM.

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Stop being difficult David.

You're complaining that the hedgerows aren't quite right in a FLIGHT SIM. Don't talk to me about being difficult. Physician, heal thyself.

Seriously, this sim comes up short for you because the hedgerows aren't quite right and some of the decals might be wrong. That is amazing.

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by David Hayward

It's close enough. Google it.





Yeah, that's just a tragic oversight in a FLIGHT SIM.



You're complaining that the hedgerows aren't quite right in a FLIGHT SIM. Don't talk to me about being difficult. Physician, heal thyself.

Seriously, this sim comes up short for you because the hedgerows aren't quite right and some of the decals might be wrong. That is amazing.

Alright let me put it this way. Firstly regarding colour, the team has the access to model England accurately (according to you). They failed. Google it. The CLoD map looks nothing like the England I fly over. It did in one of the betas, now it looks awful. Of course photos offer good sources, but Oleg always said how they were limited. You are being difficult. You're questioning the people who have lived and thrived in this country and suggesting that a small Russian team is more knowledgeable on our own history. Laughable.


Secondly, at no point have I suggested the lack of hedgerows and decals spoils the sim. The lack of a BoB aspect spoils the sim. I can't enjoy anything near the gameplay that BoB2 has to offer (currently). If I fly CloD for the graphics, I want it to be perfect.
The landscape can be improved, the decals, the campaign, the AI, the missions, the weather etc etc. A lot has to be done for an immersive BoB experience. Now it looks like the community will have to achieve this.

Yes you might ask me to move onto another sim, but why? I love having the choice, and I can recognise how good CloD could be. A channel scrap doesn't satisfy me.

Additionally, this discussion only stemmed from your questioning of the teams resources for the BoB. The fact they sought community information quashes your argument completely. You'd already blown holes in it; now you're trying to throw it into extinction. My comments on the landscape, decals et al weren't game-spoiling matters for me; they were areas which showed the teams limitation. Not bad by any standards, but elements which teams of community 'experts' would happily enjoy re-touching.

Hence why community support and expansion for CloD (working alongside other title) will be brilliant.

[Stublerone]

What is up here? I just can hear again whining about anything, although this is a thread for which we are waiting a long time now.

@philip.ed: Me (and also many other guys) do not care about this accuracy for now. As David already said: It is accurate enough! If not, then built your own map and play it, sleep on it, sell it or whatever. I do not know, what this point has to do with this update post!?! Or is this post saying: "Please talk about the accuracy of the channel map or about the not released FM!" ???
The map looks okay and this is the last thing to complain about, because we have other problems. Simply just one thing: Open another thread, state your problem and work on it! I can also complain about the new churches and the shape of the bell, which is perhaps not accurate, but I would simply feel like a little whining kid, if I complain about such a stupid, unimportant thing!

I just see so much posts with content, which shouldn't be interesting now or since the game is fixed.

Nobody knows the FM yet, and you already complain about a post from luthier, where he just metioned "up to" 60 mph speed loss of the spit? Please fly it first and then judge (simple as that!!!). And now, people already felt free to evaluate this without any knowledge?

HEY, WAKE UP!!! Do us a favour and wait until you have flown it.

And please don't whine again and state your problems in a seperate thread and additionally in the community bug tracker. Everybody is interested in your complains, but not just on the basis of your thoughts. Thoughts do not matter -> Please give them facts!!! And this is only possible, if you work with the new patch (as soon as it is released) and find out. BUT PLEASE NOT NOW!

It is always the same with flight model. What should the "blue" flyers say about the late war scenarios? They will have the worse equipment! Should they also complain about something, before they actually flew it? I just say: "OMG, what a sh... conversation up to now!!!"

I am also fed up with the whole SLI and AA party:
SLI = You know, that you will get problems with many games as soon as you setup a SLI/Crossfire system. So live with it as soon as it is fixed. And I personally think, that these "framerate fixed" guys just do not know, what they made with their computers and are now complaining everywhere, although they know the problem before buying it.
There are simply too much limits right now, that prevent to use a fully satisfying SLI setup (technically). And the fact, that SLI means less money for nvidia or ati, because old gfx cards will stay longer in the user systems, should let you understand, that they would never support this feature to the maximum. I am afraid, that you will always have to live with this fact. And also get the fact, that it will always be better to buy a single graphics card to avoid annoying SLI and Crossover problems.
In my point of view, SLI mainly is used by the freaks to fight each other with high frame rates and not because you want to upgrade an old system. Sorry, but everyone, who buys an additional old card to prevent getting low fps, is simply on a totally wrong way. (Triple Monitor Setup could be another case)

Concerning AA: This is an appreciated feature, but it comes, when it comes! And it is not that necessary and for me totally out of scope, since full picture AA methods are available without that big impact on performance. FXAA seems interesting and works in CloD. So use such things (or injection tools like ENB series?) instead of asking real AA support again and again and again. Within the last 2-3 days, this question was asked about 20 times. So, this is again not a priority problem for most of us. So stop filling all posts with AA questions. I think, AA could be a problem for spotting plane dots. So, I pilot, who wants to compete with the best, will not use AA, when this happens.

I am simply fed up here with people talking about things, which do not belong to a thread (although I am doing the same right now ).

The key of my quickly written post:
1.) Stop whining until you get the patch.
2.) Stop whining about not added features, because you alread know it.
3.) STOP WHINING in general and take part in the community to SOLVE problems, but you do not help with whining and spamming.

I miss the good old Sturmovik community several years ago. They just were not crying so unsorted and just tried to help developing the game over years.

I simply think, that here are currently several gamers, who are simply not knowing, that all these posts do not help us. This is simply not informative and completely unsorted. And so much information unsorted = WASTE, because nobody can track or even see all things!!!

Sorry for my english, but it is not my native language and it was written as quick as possible.

Anyone who thinks, that he is meant: I am not looking this post anymore and will not answer again. I want to get information and not argue! But it was time for me, to whine against you.

There is a partly destructive community is establishing here, which I do not like.

[SirAthlon]

Stublerone

What is up here? I just can hear again whining about anything, although this is a thread for which we are waiting a long time now.

@philip.ed: Me (and also many other guys) do not care about this accuracy for now. As David already said: It is accurate enough! If not, then built your own map and play it, sleep on it, sell it or whatever. I do not know, what this point has to do with this update post!?! Or is this post saying: "Please talk about the accuracy of the channel map or about the not released FM!" ???
The map looks okay and this is the last thing to complain about, because we have other problems. Simply just one thing: Open another thread, state your problem and work on it! I can also complain about the new churches and the shape of the bell, which is perhaps not accurate, but I would simply feel like a little whining kid, if I complain about such a stupid, unimportant thing!

I just see so much posts with content, which shouldn't be interesting now or since the game is fixed.

Nobody knows the FM yet, and you already complain about a post from luthier, where he just metioned "up to" 60 mph speed loss of the spit? Please fly it first and then judge (simple as that!!!). And now, people already felt free to evaluate this without any knowledge?

HEY, WAKE UP!!! Do us a favour and wait until you have flown it.

And please don't whine again and state your problems in a seperate thread and additionally in the community bug tracker. Everybody is interested in your complains, but not just on the basis of your thoughts. Thoughts do not matter -> Please give them facts!!! And this is only possible, if you work with the new patch (as soon as it is released) and find out. BUT PLEASE NOT NOW!

It is always the same with flight model. What should the "blue" flyers say about the late war scenarios? They will have the worse equipment! Should they also complain about something, before they actually flew it? I just say: "OMG, what a sh... conversation up to now!!!"

I am also fed up with the whole SLI and AA party:
SLI = You know, that you will get problems with many games as soon as you setup a SLI/Crossfire system. So live with it as soon as it is fixed. And I personally think, that these "framerate fixed" guys just do not know, what they made with their computers and are now complaining everywhere, although they know the problem before buying it.
There are simply too much limits right now, that prevent to use a fully satisfying SLI setup (technically). And the fact, that SLI means less money for nvidia or ati, because old gfx cards will stay longer in the user systems, should let you understand, that they would never support this feature to the maximum. I am afraid, that you will always have to live with this fact. And also get the fact, that it will always be better to buy a single graphics card to avoid annoying SLI and Crossover problems.
In my point of view, SLI mainly is used by the freaks to fight each other with high frame rates and not because you want to upgrade an old system. Sorry, but everyone, who buys an additional old card to prevent getting low fps, is simply on a totally wrong way. (Triple Monitor Setup could be another case)

Concerning AA: This is an appreciated feature, but it comes, when it comes! And it is not that necessary and for me totally out of scope, since full picture AA methods are available without that big impact on performance. FXAA seems interesting and works in CloD. So use such things (or injection tools like ENB series?) instead of asking real AA support again and again and again. Within the last 2-3 days, this question was asked about 20 times. So, this is again not a priority problem for most of us. So stop filling all posts with AA questions. I think, AA could be a problem for spotting plane dots. So, I pilot, who wants to compete with the best, will not use AA, when this happens.

I am simply fed up here with people talking about things, which do not belong to a thread (although I am doing the same right now ).

The key of my quickly written post:
1.) Stop whining until you get the patch.
2.) Stop whining about not added features, because you alread know it.
3.) STOP WHINING in general and take part in the community to SOLVE problems, but you do not help with whining and spamming.

I miss the good old Sturmovik community several years ago. They just were not crying so unsorted and just tried to help developing the game over years.

I simply think, that here are currently several gamers, who are simply not knowing, that all these posts do not help us. This is simply not informative and completely unsorted. And so much information unsorted = WASTE, because nobody can track or even see all things!!!

Sorry for my english, but it is not my native language and it was written as quick as possible.

Anyone who thinks, that he is meant: I am not looking this post anymore and will not answer again. I want to get information and not argue! But it was time for me, to whine against you.

There is a partly destructive community is establishing here, which I do not like.

1+

[III/JG53_Don]

Exactly, I just don't get it why so many people here are loudly complaining as like they are flying the revised FM since 3 months.

Guys, they were talking about a MAXIMUM loss of 20 mph (hurri) respective 60mph (Spit II) in SOME circumstances.
This dont mean that you lose 20 or 60 mph in general....

Apart from that some people who really thinks that the Hurricane was the 109s deadliest opponent and every LW ace is still shaking when he thinks of the might of a Hurricane in BoB makes me wonder.
Guess it has a reason why they should care for the bombers and the Spitfires for the fighter escort and not vice versa.

In addition the whole discussion of balance vs realism irritates me. I thought the vast majority here wants to play a SIMULATION? the question of balance vs. realism is nonexistent for me. If the majority of historical sources say that the hurri was the 109s great nemesis, so be it. I have no problem with that. But if the actual sources say otherwise, you should accept that for the sake of this SIMULATION!
Just give the devs the time to expand and improve the engine and you will get your realistic formations of bombers etc ASAP. The worst thing would be then to have a balanced planeset.

Just my 2 cents. Looking forward to the patch!

[Frequent_Flyer]

Originally Posted by III/JG53_Don

Exactly, I just don't get it why so many people here are loudly complaining as like they are flying the revised FM since 3 months.

Guys, they were talking about a MAXIMUM loss of 20 mph (hurri) respective 60mph (Spit II) in SOME circumstances.
This dont mean that you lose 20 or 60 mph in general....

Apart from that some people who really thinks that the Hurricane was the 109s deadliest opponent and every LW ace is still shaking when he thinks of the might of a Hurricane in BoB makes me wonder.
Guess it has a reason why they should care for the bombers and the Spitfires for the fighter escort and not vice versa.

In addition the whole discussion of balance vs realism irritates me. I thought the vast majority here wants to play a SIMULATION? the question of balance vs. realism is nonexistent for me. If the majority of historical sources say that the hurri was the 109s great nemesis, so be it. I have no problem with that. But if the actual sources say otherwise, you should accept that for the sake of this SIMULATION!
Just give the devs the time to expand and improve the engine and you will get your realistic formations of bombers etc ASAP. The worst thing would be then to have a balanced planeset.

Just my 2 cents. Looking forward to the patch!

Historically the Hurricane did account for more victories than the Spit in BOB. Historially accurate flight models combined with historical tactics should give all the combatants a fighting chance.

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by Frequent_Flyer

Historically the Hurricane did account for more victories than the Spit in BOB. Historially accurate flight models combined with historical tactics should give all the combatants a fighting chance.

They shot down bombers...

[mazex]

Mmm, I've been waiting for the day when the main fighting is about the Spitfire vs 109 performance in the game versus tons of obscure references instead of performance and bugs in the game A good sign!

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by VO101_Tom

They shot down bombers...

Interesting report for you Tom.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...ricane-109.pdf

[Frequent_Flyer]

Originally Posted by VO101_Tom

They shot down bombers...

Read the history of the Polish Sqdns. fighting in BOB. They flew predominately Hurri's and the majority of their kills were not bombers. in addition they were not allowed to engage in combat until aprox. half of the time span genellay accepted as BOB, elapsed. They still were some of the highest scoring units to participate.