Visual comparison between COD and other upcoming releases

[6S.Manu]

One day you guys will tell me what you really like about the CEM in this half-sim... Take out the OVERHEAT label from IL2 and the management it's almost the same. Of course there is the oil radiator too... but the funny thing is that both the radiators do not work correcly IIRC so...

About WoPlanes: I really really really like the terrain and the haze effect... tracers and smoke are very good, the flames are similar to the IL2's one, and are not so different from CloD (I still remember when Oleg posted the first images of the flaming bomber)
Regarding map size: it's really a problem??? I'm against very big maps if the target of the sim to fight: wider maps means lesser probability to find the enemy, above all with the horrible target visibility of CloD. Bigger is not better...

I like the external models too, of course the cockpits of Clod are better but I don't care about that if I want to have a combat sim. What I'm saying is that I would prefer worser models/graphics but better playability/simulation.

Then talking about DM and FM... maybe CloD's DMs are more detailed but there is not guarantee that they are correct, above all then FMs are totally broken since the release.

I would easily take a great combat simulator with 2003 graphics over a broken simulator with beautiful graphics...

[csThor]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

egarding map size: it's really a problem??? I'm against very big maps if the target of the sim to fight: wider maps means lesser probability to find the enemy, above all with the horrible target visibility of CloD. Bigger is not better...

That's only true if mindless and pointless gangbanging with fighters is all you care about. Once realistic missions are part of the equation postage stamp maps become a true problem.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by csThor

That's only true if mindless and pointless gangbanging with fighters is all you care about. Once realistic missions are part of the equation postage stamp maps become a true problem.

Look you are aiming at the wrong guy, I'm not a furball guy at all... in the past I did 2.5 hours recon mission in IL2 during an online campaing in the PTO to search a carrier, 2 hours CAP over objectives only to witness that the enemy sneaked around us with an improbable path at an improbable altitude.

Now please tell me how do you think to defend the entire 1:1 seabord of England with 20 planes... above all without a radar system (Maraz did a great mod for the IL2 SEOW campaigns).

Bigger maps allow you to bomb London with Brest-Plymouth-Bristol London as ordered wayponts because all the fighters are over the Dover.. is that realistic? Have you fun in that?

Look, some months ago we were to fly on Falcon BMS for a combat mission and a new guy was talking about he had 200 hours on the F-16; at last we realized that he didn't know a $hit since he was used to fly relocation missions and have real pleasure in doing that... not a surprise knowing he's a FS guy.

It's the same problem of the ARMA series... you can enter in enemy territory anywhere expect in front of the objective, and then you take the defenders for behind, because the maps are big.

If you want a combat simulator you need to put the guys in the same limited airspace... otherwise yours will be a solo indisturbed mission.

[csThor]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Look you are aiming at the wrong guy, I'm not a furball guy at all... in the past I did 2.5 hours recon mission in IL2 during an online campaing in the PTO to search a carrier, 2 hours CAP over objectives only to witness that the enemy sneaked around us with an improbable path at an improbable altitude.

Hey, you gave me that opening.

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Now please tell me how do you think to defend the entire 1:1 seabord of England with 20 planes... above all without a radar system (Maraz did a great mod for the IL2 SEOW campaigns).

Simple: You don't. Map size isn't the issue here, it's the setup of the mission(s). With "so few" people engaged you limit the area of operations - problem solved. The issue of too small maps is that they limit the flexibility and the scope of the missions that can be built on them.

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Bigger maps allow you to bomb London with Brest-Plymouth-Bristol London as ordered wayponts because all the fighters are over the Dover.. is that realistic? Have you fun in that?

See above. The mission setup is a big part of the equation but generally speaking large maps can be used only partially by limiting the area of operations, too small maps cannot be made larger. Simple.

[KeroseneA1]

It's not the size of the map or the number of airplanes that matters. You couldn't have enough airplanes in the air to build an effective shield around a country without some sort of guidance system. So why not do it like in real life?

Ground observers and/or radar stations provide intelligence on the location number (and possibly type) of airplanes approaching, fighter control then directs the appropriate number of fighters to intercept. '92 Sqdn, steer heading 140, climb angels 23', with new instructions being issued as needed.

Fighter control could be provided by the program where applicable, by computer voice output and/or text message. It would be available for example for the defenders launching from Britain, but not on attackers of the RAF on a deep raid into France (no radar coverage, no ground observers). In essence the defenders would have an advantage of intel.

To avoid empty maps large or small, some sort of guidance system is needed.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by csThor

Hey, you gave me that opening.

But I've never said I like mindless fight and furball...

Originally Posted by csThor

Simple: You don't. Map size isn't the issue here, it's the setup of the mission(s). With "so few" people engaged you limit the area of operations - problem solved. The issue of too small maps is that they limit the flexibility and the scope of the missions that can be built on them.

Of course, the right rules can solve that issue... maybe a "restricted area" warning like the one on the RO series. There needs to be a function inside the mission code. Otherwise you know that "smart" people will always find a way to go around that rule (flying on the border for example).

Originally Posted by csThor

See above. The mission setup is a big part of the equation but generally speaking large maps can be used only partially by limiting the area of operations, too small maps cannot be made larger. Simple.

And what if the map size does shape engine performance?

It's a quantity vs quality matter: if I have to fly in that airspace (because of rules) why the developer has to model correctly places that I'll never fly above in those missions.

Look I don't know how the CloD's map affect the performance of the game, but when people say about WoPlanes or the old WoPrey that the terrain is good BECAUSE the map is small... then I 100% prefer that small map.

And please, can we stop to aim at the poor performing PCs as "old rigs": if all the newest games run quite well EXCEPT CloD probably it's not the PC, it's this application and the way it's been developed.

If WoPlanes, a MMO as like to say, will simulate at the same time many fights and encounters over a bigger strategical map giving us only a fraction of it (as the channel map was composed by 10 different maps, one for sector of operation), I'm all for it...

[recoilfx]

Map size shouldn't affect performance much if the game is properly engineered.

Beyond what the player can't see the game shouldn't be wasting calculations on them (IE, skip rendering, simple flight modeling/dm/ai).

The amount of object details rendered will have more of an impact. In the case of CloD, it seems to have the biggest problem loading assets that cause stutters and slow fps with particles effects.

[csThor]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Of course, the right rules can solve that issue... maybe a "restricted area" warning like the one on the RO series. There needs to be a function inside the mission code. Otherwise you know that "smart" people will always find a way to go around that rule (flying on the border for example).

The FMB already allows the mission designer to set the "area of operations". Perhaps our code magicians can cook up a script that checks the players' coordinates vs the ones set as limits? And warns, and if ignored, kicks the player if he's outside of the assigned area.

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

And what if the map size does shape engine performance?

Okay, valid argument. You know back when Clod was just out and everyone had performance issues Ilya asked for ideas for smaller maps. Frankyboy presented possible maps of just the Straits of Dover and the area between the Cotentin peninsula up to Portsmough and Tangmere. Why those ideas weren't adopted I'll never understand.

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

It's a quantity vs quality matter: if I have to fly in that airspace (because of rules) why the developer has to model correctly places that I'll never fly above in those missions.

Well, I must honestly admit that I absolutely hate the canned appearance of Coop missions as they essentially kill the fog of war and any kind of surprise that may appear save for creative tactics of one of the engaged parties. I greatly prefer the freedom (timewise) the DF server style gameplay with heavy use of AI formations CloD theoretically allows.

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by csThor

Well, I must honestly admit that I absolutely hate the canned appearance of Coop missions as they essentially kill the fog of war and any kind of surprise that may appear save for creative tactics of one of the engaged parties. I greatly prefer the freedom (timewise) the DF server style gameplay with heavy use of AI formations CloD theoretically allows.

Seems you quit playing coops around 2004. Been many changes since that year. Hardly anything was canned in online wars and there is still no equal to what formations of multiple plane operations took place there.

[Osprey]

Strange logic Manu. I'd go for the nerdy looking girl who just needs to unravel her hair, add a little makeup and take off the glasses over the rough old slapper any day mate.