4.11 - AI debugging

[harryRIEDL]

I had a quick QM with a bomber raid with some odd behavior I had TB-3 landing randomly(undamaged and hopping up and down on the terrain) and collisions Two PE-8 ran into each other on the approch to target (average AI Crimieia Map Target Airfield)

[mmaruda]

Not really a bug, but since the AI rear gunner snipers are gone, it's become ridiculous - attacking a formation of IL-4 bombers... Alone! Downed 6 of them in one pass doing about 280kph in 190 A-4. They were shooting all over the place, except at me. This wasn't a fast boom and zoom, I slowly got onto each and every one's tail, and shot the crap out of 'em. In 4.10 I would be dead in seconds.

I know that before the gunners were a pain, but a slow, lone attack on a bomber formation from behind still should be suicide - now it's a stroll in the park. I was actually eating a doughnut during this, and they gave me and Iron Cross... Bit weird.

[BadAim]

I'd like to first note that I'm enjoying the new AI immensely they're much smoother and more human like. One little foible I did notice is that I had my wingman crash right next to me as I landed at missions end when I forgot to give him the "go home" order, just like they've always done. If you have time this might be something to look at.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by BadAim

I'd like to first note that I'm enjoying the new AI immensely they're much smoother and more human like. One little foible I did notice is that I had my wingman crash right next to me as I landed at missions end when I forgot to give him the "go home" order, just like they've always done. If you have time this might be something to look at.

I have NOT tested it ... however if the wingman still does a CFIT when his leader is landing they most likely also still pancake into hills and mountains when scud running or dogfighting in valleys ... especially on maps like Slovakia while carrying munitions.

[FC99]

Originally Posted by BadAim

One little foible I did notice is that I had my wingman crash right next to me as I landed at missions end when I forgot to give him the "go home" order, just like they've always done. If you have time this might be something to look at.

My reply might sound patronizing but I assure that that is not my intention, I'll use your post just as an example and try to provoke some thoughts.

In above situation first error was one made by human pilot, in fact AI pilots done what many of the real WWII pilots would do, they followed their leader.
This leads to the next point. Being a leader is not easy, not everybody can be a leader in RL. Leadership brings responsibility, leader have to take care about his subordinates and adjust his actions to match ability of his team.

IMO players should try to get into this leadership role more, great leaders are those who can get the most out of their team, overcame its weaknesses and exploit its strengths. As AI improves and become more human-like, role of the leader becomes more and more important and players are missing a lot of fun if they don't dug deeper into Leader role.

My point being, do what your team can do, don't try to force them to do what they can't do.

Now back to the bug report. You are right, that happens. I made new maneuver for low level flying ( you can now lead your flight few meters above the ground, try it but just don't make descent too steep) and I build mechanism that was supposed to take care about situations like you described.
Obviously it's not sufficient and I'll make some adjustments. Thanks for report and ,please, don't take my post personally, it was just used to ilustrate my POV about the leadership in games in general.

[Lagarto]

The problem is that if you fly in No 2 position (leader's wingman) and the leader gets shot down, the rest of the flight (Nos 3 and 4) will formate on you. It happened to me last night. I couldn't communicate with them, and the moment I was about to touch down, they both slammed into the ground.

[[URU]BlackFox]

Originally Posted by Lagarto

The problem is that if you fly in No 2 position (leader's wingman) and the leader gets shot down, the rest of the flight (Nos 3 and 4) will formate on you. It happened to me last night. I couldn't communicate with them, and the moment I was about to touch down, they both slammed into the ground.

Some nice thing to implement would be that the leadership of the flight gets transferred when the leader gets shot down. That way the AI can always have a commander (another AI or a human, according to circumstances).I saw this in a 4.09 mod, together with new formations and other stuff, but it was incompatible with newer versions.

Again, I know that it's a massive work, so take it just as a suggestion for future versions of the game.

[Blackjack]

Originally Posted by Lagarto

The problem is that if you fly in No 2 position (leader's wingman) and the leader gets shot down, the rest of the flight (Nos 3 and 4) will formate on you. It happened to me last night. I couldn't communicate with them, and the moment I was about to touch down, they both slammed into the ground.

That mostly happens to me if I "request backup" from base , so they sort of latch onto me (sometimes the lead of the flight too!), maybe some sort of that behavour happens when you send "clear my 6" on the radio, I really dont know

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Lagarto

The problem is that if you fly in No 2 position (leader's wingman) and the leader gets shot down, the rest of the flight (Nos 3 and 4) will formate on you. It happened to me last night. I couldn't communicate with them, and the moment I was about to touch down, they both slammed into the ground.

Damn, this is something we must improve. While we are at it, what do you think about giving the human player an option to inform his flight about nearby bandits even when he is not flight leader?

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by FC99

Damn, this is something we must improve. While we are at it, what do you think about giving the human player an option to inform his flight about nearby bandits even when he is not flight leader?

I think thats a good idea, you would irl.

Awesome work your doing with the AI, really impressive