Strange archery

[Sneaksie]

Originally Posted by ThisIsRealWarfare

Well, that makes sense. Archers werent elves actually, as one might think. Compared to other games, archer deals significant damage by wounding, but not killing as much.

Yes, i suppose archers will seem nerfed to TW games and especially King Arthur were they massacred everything (but they were tuned down in the patch later), but here's how they are here.
You should try a custom battle with professional or elite eastern archers or western professional crossbowmen though, they are far more dangerous.

[He111]

hmmmm so what's the point of cheap-archers .. if no volleys will even take-out one soldier?

i understand cheap archers don't have composite bows or bodkin arrow heads, and most medieval solders have large, wooden shields ... but i would expect at least 1 casualty every 3 volleys ?? yes? or is that historically incorrect?

As to the ARchers V pikemen, 100 cheapest archers V standard size pikemen unit. ARchers fired then evaded, shotting a few charging pikemen but then archers got stuck on terrain (???) and stood and didn't evade, firing arrows at charging / reforming / advancing pikemen. Then pikemen charged into the archers which didn't flinch, just kept firing into pikemen who fell like flies .. who paniced, then ran. It gives the impression the archers knew the pikemen were about to run ... i didn't see it.

Can I hide archers in trees? will the enemy see them? how can I tell?

.

[Grim.Reaper]

I also commented about this over at Wargamer.com. In one battle, I had 2 archer units on the top of a hill, with a single calvary unit very close to me but stationary. I opened fire with volley after volley of arrows, and not a single death. This was going on for minutes. Then their infantry came at me. Same thing. Volley after volley with not a single casulaty.

I don't care if I have the worst archers and they have the best armor, I should at least get lucky with killing some, especially after I hit them time after time.

Mitra had me do a 1-1 battle to test it. When I did that, I did see some casualties, but still seemed way too little. I had units right in front of me, getting hit by volley after volley. Some did die, but at the rate and distance I was hitting them, a lot more should have been dead.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want archers to become super units, but they don't seem to do much. However, I did notice in the 1-1 that they would become wounder quite a bit.

[Piemaster]

I only use crossbows and I have noticed that the enemy die exponentially (slowly at first, but then die faster and faster) when they have several units of crossbows shooting them all at once. I suggest having multiple units of archers/ranged focus on a single unit, that way you can take them down faster.

[Grim.Reaper]

Originally Posted by Piemaster

I only use crossbows and I have noticed that the enemy die exponentially (slowly at first, but then die faster and faster) when they have several units of crossbows shooting them all at once. I suggest having multiple units of archers/ranged focus on a single unit, that way you can take them down faster.

As stated in my example, I did have 2 archer units attacking the same unit. My units were archers so maybe crossbows are stronger.

[Piemaster]

You should test crossbows for this, most likely they are more powerful than the bows. I have also heard that the western archers are crummy in general, whether this is true or not I'm not certain.

[Grim.Reaper]

Originally Posted by Piemaster

You should test crossbows for this, most likely they are more powerful than the bows. I have also heard that the western archers are crummy in general, whether this is true or not I'm not certain.

Even if I test this wont change the fact the archers are weak. Don't get me wrong, I don't want my archers to kill everything on sight, but if I have 2 units on the top of a hill shooting at a stationary target, some better die. I could have the worst archers and my enemy the best units, but showering them with 100's of arrows better kill some of them even if with just lucky shots.

[Goblin Wizard]

Some facts about arrow script:
(..\data\aix\weapon\inf.g1.archer.arrow.static\inf .g1.archer.arrow.static.aix)

Each soldier has 24 HP.

Types of arrow damage:

[*] = ;const DeadDamage = 24;
[*] = ;const HardDamage = 12;
[*] = ;const LiteDamage = 4;

An example of damage probability with western bow against unarmored target:

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 5 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 9 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 11 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 12 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 45 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 3 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 6 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 8 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 95 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 2 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 4 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 100 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 2 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

As you noticed there is no chance to kill a soldier in one shot (no possibility of dealing DeadDamage) at long range. If distance is greater that 94 meters you need 6 successful hits to kill a soldier! Even at medium range like 45 meters chance of dealing DeadDamage is very low. And all of this is against unarmored target!

Some examples of crossbow damage (xbow against 0 armor):

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 5 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 10 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     HPDec := HardDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 40 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 6 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 7 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 9 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 100 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 3 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 4 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                     else
[*] = ;                     if CubeRes <= 6 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

As you can see xbow is absolutely deadly at short range. Nearly every bolt kills. Of course at long range xbow is not so deadly but still has a chance of insta kill (unarmored target).
So If you don't like dev's archery system you can easily change it yourself.