Target visibility

[Strike]

I really like your post and suggestion Manu, but I have a few personal touches I'd consider too.

If we implement your "scan box" area, it's going to work much like a pseudo-radar scan. Like radars, target size, distance and relative velocity make important factors. For gameplay and new guys, or an online dogfight server this is useful. For players who prefer the action over the hunt and kill this is excellent, I'd leave it as is.

But for more "realism/immersion" players I see a different approach. I'd keep your basic "eye vision radar" with calculated probabilities of discovering targets, but change the way these targets are displayed. Generally speaking, most WWII dogfights were faught during daylit conditions, and so the sun was usually available. Therefore it could be implemented as a bright flash (like a lone star in a night sky) or similar to modern planes anti-collision lights. Maybe with a bit of flare to it and random duration.

This way, if scanning sectors, you will catch a glimpse of a flash at distance, revealing an unknown contact. This will let you focus your scan at this location, and give you a direction to pursue the contact if visual ID cannot be made (like RL). If on the other hand you have ground radar guiding you, and you know the general direction and altitude, this small flash will almost guarantee you that you have found your enemy (since he's been ID'd by radar).

Well, what if its overcast or rainy? Well, the clouds make for a better silhouette detection, but the ground is still tough (like RL). The game already has shadows casting from clouds, so maybe a small detection script could tell if your plane was in a bright spot and broadcast "blinks" to nearby people within range, looking in your direction. Other than that it's the naked eye.

I think this "blinking sun glare" feature would be warmly appreciated for most guys looking for the "realistic" approach. At nighttime developers should consider exhaust stack flames as it was in real life night ops.

Just my 2 cents. The vision radar is a good idea imho, but i personally hate markers. I'd prefer a chance of seeing that reflection blink, telling your flight to check 10'o clock cause you think you saw something there. Then everyone could focus at the same spot and you'd have a much higher chance of discovering the enemy.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by Strike

I really like your post and suggestion Manu, but I have a few personal touches I'd consider too.

If we implement your "scan box" area, it's going to work much like a pseudo-radar scan. Like radars, target size, distance and relative velocity make important factors. For gameplay and new guys, or an online dogfight server this is useful. For players who prefer the action over the hunt and kill this is excellent, I'd leave it as is.

But for more "realism/immersion" players I see a different approach. I'd keep your basic "eye vision radar" with calculated probabilities of discovering targets, but change the way these targets are displayed. Generally speaking, most WWII dogfights were faught during daylit conditions, and so the sun was usually available. Therefore it could be implemented as a bright flash (like a lone star in a night sky) or similar to modern planes anti-collision lights. Maybe with a bit of flare to it and random duration.

This way, if scanning sectors, you will catch a glimpse of a flash at distance, revealing an unknown contact. This will let you focus your scan at this location, and give you a direction to pursue the contact if visual ID cannot be made (like RL). If on the other hand you have ground radar guiding you, and you know the general direction and altitude, this small flash will almost guarantee you that you have found your enemy (since he's been ID'd by radar).

Well, what if its overcast or rainy? Well, the clouds make for a better silhouette detection, but the ground is still tough (like RL). The game already has shadows casting from clouds, so maybe a small detection script could tell if your plane was in a bright spot and broadcast "blinks" to nearby people within range, looking in your direction. Other than that it's the naked eye.

I think this "blinking sun glare" feature would be warmly appreciated for most guys looking for the "realistic" approach. At nighttime developers should consider exhaust stack flames as it was in real life night ops.

Just my 2 cents. The vision radar is a good idea imho, but i personally hate markers. I'd prefer a chance of seeing that reflection blink, telling your flight to check 10'o clock cause you think you saw something there. Then everyone could focus at the same spot and you'd have a much higher chance of discovering the enemy.

Hi Strike, the "blinking sun glare" is a really good idea.. still in these days me and my teammates are discussing about a good solution and the blinking object is been one of the solutions, provided that this effect is triggered every x seconds because of the resolution problem.

I mean that if there are 2 planes manouvering at 2km below of me they could be changing their vector many times in a range of 10 seconds. Focusing your sight on that airspace you should be able to spot AND track those planes. One blink should be very near to the next one (talking about time).

[irR4tiOn4L]

I've just put buttons for 30/70 fov on my joystick and use them in conjunction with TrackIR.

While it would be nice to be able to set a realistic fov, say 39 or so, switching between them is easy, intuitive and very quick. It should also make spotting aircraft about as difficult as in reality.

Given this solution, do we really need more complex dots?

[ZaltysZ]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

There's got to be a way for the game to grab your monitor size and resolution from Windows device manager. Then calculate 100% correct size for each object.

If you talk about real life scale, then you also need to know distance from observer to screen for this to work. Windows device manager does not know that.

[Untamo]

Originally Posted by ZaltysZ

If you talk about real life scale, then you also need to know distance from observer to screen for this to work. Windows device manager does not know that.

Indeed. Nor the physical size of the monitor. Say a 17" monitor vs. a 32" low res TV (used as a monitor) might have similar resolutions but a wholly different viewing distance.

[TUCKIE_JG52]

I don't understand where's the problem.

Compared to reality in which I fly, I never had a simulator with a plane detection modelling so realistic as CoD.

What was unreal were the big dots in 1946, not the way it represents in CoD. Of course I compare to reality, not to another (easier) simulator.

Contacts are difficult to see. Depending on the day, color and background as said, and weather condition. Often, haze mades you only see a plane when it suddenly comes close. Sometimes, a contact you have spotted a second ago disappears from a sudden. I don't mind if the disappearing dots in CoD was considered a bug by many. For me it's not a bug, but a realistic feature.

The only contact easy to see it a big plane, higher than you, in a brigt sunny day.

Anything else, it is very difficult. An I speak on WHITE civillian planes! I assume camouflaged planes hiding against the terrain is even more difficult to see!!! Did you guys ever flew over a dark plane?

[Insuber]

We are approaching a hard spot of this discussion, that is the compromise between a pure simulation and a pure game. This wasn't OP's point, who was more concerned about the unrealistic invisibility of contacts, which often disappear even at close distance.

I underline my opinion, based also on my real life experience: close contacts and contacts against the terrain are too hard to spot with respect to reality. Far contacts against sky are a mixed bag, sometimes easy, sometimes vanishing. LODs are to be revised here, among other things. Playability is at stake.

Cheers,
Ins

[TomcatViP]

Tuckie pls note that small planes are harder to see and this is aggravated by flying at low alt such as you probably do in your Cessna 172 (152 ?).

Note also that there is no mate camo in 1940 and large portion of wings shld reflect sun glare at certain angles.

[pupo162]

Originally Posted by TUCKIE_JG52

I don't understand where's the problem.

Compared to reality in which I fly, I never had a simulator with a plane detection modelling so realistic as CoD.

What was unreal were the big dots in 1946, not the way it represents in CoD. Of course I compare to reality, not to another (easier) simulator.

Contacts are difficult to see. Depending on the day, color and background as said, and weather condition. Often, haze mades you only see a plane when it suddenly comes close. Sometimes, a contact you have spotted a second ago disappears from a sudden. I don't mind if the disappearing dots in CoD was considered a bug by many. For me it's not a bug, but a realistic feature.

The only contact easy to see it a big plane, higher than you, in a brigt sunny day.

Anything else, it is very difficult. An I speak on WHITE civillian planes! I assume camouflaged planes hiding against the terrain is even more difficult to see!!! Did you guys ever flew over a dark plane?

well, i have to disagree tuckie. while flying, decteting contacts is hard, harder than il2 yes, but once found they are easier too keep sighted, and are actually easier too see.

lets say that if i had a plane 8 km from me, i wouldnt find him, becouse its hard, but when he said "im at XX place going north" and i restringed my search to that area, i would easely find him, and see what kind of plane it was, the color, how many engines etc...

also the bug is rather a bug and not a feature as i udnerstood, since from 2 km to 3 km hte plaen turns invisible for some time, wich is a pain in the ass.

cheers

[KeBrAnTo]

Originally Posted by TUCKIE_JG52

I don't understand where's the problem.

Compared to reality in which I fly, I never had a simulator with a plane detection modelling so realistic as CoD.

What was unreal were the big dots in 1946, not the way it represents in CoD. Of course I compare to reality, not to another (easier) simulator.

Contacts are difficult to see. Depending on the day, color and background as said, and weather condition. Often, haze mades you only see a plane when it suddenly comes close. Sometimes, a contact you have spotted a second ago disappears from a sudden. I don't mind if the disappearing dots in CoD was considered a bug by many. For me it's not a bug, but a realistic feature.

The only contact easy to see it a big plane, higher than you, in a brigt sunny day.

Anything else, it is very difficult. An I speak on WHITE civillian planes! I assume camouflaged planes hiding against the terrain is even more difficult to see!!! Did you guys ever flew over a dark plane?

I agree with you, but ....

don't talk too loud about this things m8 or someone might drop on your head the thousand-pages-navy-visibility-instruction-manual-study, which you're supposed to agree with 100% blinfolded, or you'll be considered as a traitor !!!

I got tired of trying to speak to the stones a few posts ago, mate.