Mods discussion, links, etc

[Oktoberfest]

UP 3.0 is going to be amazing ! Graf Zepelin and Peter Strasser CV ! Plus new IJN light CV !

Ar196 torp !

I can already imagine alternate history scenario with IJN and KM together in the Pacific fighting against Anglo-american CV task forces ! SOOO GREAT !

And +1 with fabianfred : PLEASE make 4.11 compatible with other mod packs so we can just enjoy the best of both world ! It would be so great and would avoid Mod makers to stay in older version to continue their dev.

[Azimech]

I agree. The huge list of servers on hyperlobby (most sparsely populated or totally empty) and with incompatible requirements (4.09 or 4.10.1, HSFX 5 with or without expert mode, UP2.01 with or without MDS, etc.) is a pain in the whatchamacallit. There's even a server still running 4.08! Constantly switching folders or executables for the right server is no fun at all. And with the release of UP 3.0 it will only get worse until all 2.01 servers have switched.

Instead of widening the canyon, I vote for a more "holistic approach" and hopefully one day we'll have a true unified package, even if it means bending Oleg's rules. For example: let's loosen the polygon/texture size restriction for cockpits and models. We're almost halfway 2012 and shouldn't bother with the fps on ancient systems. In the future, if someone's upset he can't enjoy the the high frame rates of the previous patch he might as well buy a new videocard or CPU. Hardware is cheaper than ever.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by Oktoberfest

Graf Zepelin and Peter Strasser CV ! Plus new IJN light CV !

Fantasy repaints and frankenstuff = lame!

I really don't understand all the fuzz about mod packs.
Only real benefit is the different sound IMHO.

[nearmiss]

1. Maps
2. effects
3. sounds

make for alot of improvements

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Fantasy repaints and frankenstuff = lame!

I really don't understand all the fuzz about mod packs.
Only real benefit is the different sound IMHO.

Yeah, mod packs are so lame. All you get are:

1) All planes flyable, albeit many with "borrowed" cockpits and gunner stations.

2) Scads of new maps.

3) New variants of existing planes - some quite well researched.

4) Complete historical loadouts for existing planes.

5) Small fixes to mistakes on stock planes.

6) Loads of new planes - some with new 3D models, DM and FM. Yeah, some are "frankenplanes" but even then, they're often quite well done.

7) Lots of new ground objects.

Corrections to AI which fix "sniper gunners" and engines which never overheat.

9) Improvements to AI which make enemy planes tougher, more aggressive opponents.

10) Additions to AI which allow you to control up to wing-sized formations of bombers and give additional commands to wingmen.

11) Additions to AI which allow forward observers, target marking, ground controlled radar.

12) Better default skins.

13) Lots of little corrections to things which 1C was too busy/lazy to fix over the years. Like better sounds, better smoke and fire effects, better ground textures and corrections to dumb mistakes in FM coding well before the "official" fixes.

Basically, modders are telling 1C and DT where they want the sim to go and are taking steps to make it go there. If mods were junk nobody would use them.

If DT is smart, they would do what computer security companies do - recruit the best hackers to work for the "good guys." In this case, recruit the better modders onto their team, or ask to use their mods.

Also, DT's web presence has been minimal, to say the least. You guys need to communicate better, and not just on inherently "mod unfriendly" sites like this one. Set up a web page that lists formal requirements for mods (i.e., polygon counts, areas that are off limits) and tutorials on how to add objects, planes, ships, etc. to the game. Maybe have an "official" TD presence on mod forums to steer promising modders towards contributing to official patches. Basically, encourage people to work through DT and to build stuff that is up to official standards.

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Yeah, mod packs are so lame. All you get are:

I could go through each of your points and explain in detail, why each of them is lame. But I will not. Because a) I know, that if not you, then most of the mod users will not listen to any reasons, so it would be a pure waste of time and effort; b) I respect your preferences and your desire to use mods - in no way I will try to prevent you from having and using them.

I just say, that all that lame stuff will never get into the official add-ons. That's all. At the same time DT is happy to cooperate with people, who produce really high quality stuff and are willing to include it into DT releases.
The IL-4 cockpit, shown in one of the DT updates, is a good example of such cooperation. You may also ask Sita (one of the SB cockpit authors) on this forum: I bet, he would have a lot's of good words for us.

[Sita]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

At the same time DT is happy to cooperate with people

confirm ... from the DT we get a lot of support, advice and materials! and clearly see a desire to cooperate with us and help us)

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

I could go through each of your points and explain in detail, why each of them is lame.

I'm not saying that all the mods out there are flawless, but some of them are very good. Technically, they might not be up to the standard that
TD/1C expects, but they're "good enough." More importantly, they point the way to where a large portion of the IL2 community wants to go. If DT is smart, they'll run to catch up.

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

I just say, that all that lame stuff will never get into the official add-ons. That's all.

Of course. I wouldn't want it any other way.

But I also get very skeptical about arguments that 1C/DT add-ons are flawless, while all mods are dreck. There's a continuum of mods from lousy to great.

Likewise, there are also plenty of places where 1C's work has been shoddy and modders have fixed it. Cases in point: the screwed up dihedral on the Hawk 81/P-40B and the messed up length of the P-51D (which, in turn, screwed up CG and made the plane fly strangely). Fans of the game were complaining about those problems for years and 1C did nothing. After the game was cracked, within a year modders fixed those problems.

In a few places, modders have even fixed DT's mistakes, although DT has been much better about quickly releasing patches to fix bugs.

DT should go out of its way to recruit the more talented modders. Not necessarily add them to the team, but supervise them as "outside contractors." For the less talented guys with good ideas, DT should contact them and say, "can we use your idea" and do the work yourselves.

There should also be formal standards set and tutorials to help modders get up to DT standards. Currently, there's no way to do that.

Yes, you guys occasionally recruit folks like Sita, but it seems like you ignore or alienate lots of other talented modders. There are a lot of sensitive egos in the IL2 modding world, but everyone shares a passion for the game. Obviously, you can't work with the guys who are taking the game in directions which are off-limits (e.g., Korea, high poly cockpits), but that still leaves lots of folks who could be allies if you just approached them correctly.

Being a bit friendlier and using a bit more diplomacy would help everyone (including me).

[_1SMV_Gitano]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

DT should go out of its way to recruit the more talented modders. Not necessarily add them to the team, but supervise them as "outside contractors." For the less talented guys with good ideas, DT should contact them and say, "can we use your idea" and do the work yourselves.

There should also be formal standards set and tutorials to help modders get up to DT standards. Currently, there's no way to do that.

Yes, you guys occasionally recruit folks like Sita, but it seems like you ignore or alienate lots of other talented modders. There are a lot of sensitive egos in the IL2 modding world, but everyone shares a passion for the game. Obviously, you can't work with the guys who are taking the game in directions which are off-limits (e.g., Korea, high poly cockpits), but that still leaves lots of folks who could be allies if you just approached them correctly.

There is a lot of cooperation between DT and modders, much more than you can imagine. It is just not publicized on forums.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by _1SMV_Gitano

There is a lot of cooperation between DT and modders, much more than you can imagine. It is just not publicized on forums.

Good to hear it. But, what I'm saying is publicize it more!

You guys need a website or something like it, with tutorials, restrictions, a "wishlist" of add-ons, and ideas on how folks can help.