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| IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator. |
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#1
03-22-2011, 12:27 AM
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Heliocon, is there a point to your ranting?
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#2
03-22-2011, 01:37 AM
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Apologies for getting caught up in this, but I - like just about everyone - am getting fed up:
CloDo was claimed to have a 'next gen' engine; Heliocon rightly pointed out that this wasn't so - as it didn't take advantage of the absolute latest technologies. That's all. No calling the engine rude things; no claiming there was anything better; no discounting the very valid reasons the dev team had for not including, for example, DX11 from the off. Heliocon provided links to his (I presume, my apologies if not) sources for specific numbers used when the discussion moved on to the possible influence changing market share of various cards (and so the 'right-' or 'wrong'ness of that decision by the devs to go with stable rather than cutting-edge). When faced with EVIDENCE that supported a different interpretation, he was able to move on and adopt that new information - laudable, and more than could be said for some. It seems to me very much that others are getting all het up over indirectly related issues, leading to everyone getting a little hot under the collar and insults and claims of rants now abound. Why? Take a step back, don't read too much into what anyone says, but pay attention to what it is that they do say. Fair enough to call CloDo 'not state of the art' - it isn't, with the best will in the world. Now, it would be unfair to call it anything other than the newest and the best...but nobody has  Heliocon, Tree and co. often take quite a lot of flak from those who misinterpret and misrepresent what it is they say. Not that they always handle the situation perfectly, but who does?Having, at great length, established that on release Cliffs of Dover will be the best PLATFORM (agreed by all) on which to base a long-running WWII aviation simulation, with updates including full utilisation of DX11 etc (also agreed) just as soon as is practical, and that people are imperfect (who knew?!)...can we please now move on? love love, Screwy PS EDIT: See above for perfect example. Kikuchiyo, I'm afraid that's not tessellation (nice though it would be!), it's just a very effective texture. If you look to the edges of the sandbags you can see pretty clearly that they are absolutely vertical. If tessellated you'd be able to see the 3D outline of the sandbags, where at the moment there is only a flat 2D line denoting the edge. Heliocon, having just defended you somewhat, please play nicely - does no harm to try to correct people so they can appreciated where they were mistaken in a way which leads them to learn more...I fear insults and patronising isn't the way to do this... Last edited by Screwball; 03-22-2011 at 01:41 AM.
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#3
03-22-2011, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
 )It's the way he words them that's insulting to many people and detracts from the point he's trying to make. I might be the most well-informed, correct person on the planet in any given field, a true authority. If i go about trying to convince people by calling them names, it's easy to see that i don't really stand any chances. Some people can't grasp his points, i'm not talking about the ones that won't but about the ones that miss it in all the clutter (and he does make some valid ones), but part of the responsibility is his, it's like he's on a constant rage-posting spree. If he prefaces his argument starting with "you idiots", nobody will pay attention past that. And that's entirely his fault because that's how he usually rolls. Short version: good points, lousy presentation that ends up having the exact opposite effect to the one desired. Last edited by Blackdog_kt; 03-22-2011 at 02:12 AM.
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#4
03-22-2011, 03:04 AM
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Thank you for the clarification. I was just so dazzled and hadn't ever seen 2d texturing done so well I assumed it was, but thank you for pointing out my error.
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#5
03-22-2011, 03:39 AM
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(In general) Like said a big part of the thing that gets under my skin is having to argue over what is what with someone who does not know what they are saying, now you can explain it to them, but often no matter how polite it goes in circles as people jump in to make their comment then jump out, then gets pulled off into tangent arguments and a free for all where people insist that their point of view must be right because others agree (even though others are simply trolling the person or themselves dont know what is going on, which is what irritated me in this thread when thing got pulled way out of context). Once this happens for repeatedly in different threads over a period of time, often by the same people its hard to keep your cool. Many people go after tree for his comments, yes he is critical, but thats not bad. People say he doesnt care, but if he didnt he would not be here (and if he was here to flame, which trees normally try to avoid at all costs, he would of been much "louder" in his comments to incite argument). I know this thread is not about dx11, but to avoid further misunderstandings here is a short simple demo of how direct compute and tesselation works - here though the water is the main thing which is a mix of multiple methods so ignore the tesselation title because it was paired with another video I believe (the land is tesselated, the water is direct compute I believe, but to keep it simple they didnt define the differances). Now the other thing to note is that to program or do this art by hand the normal way in Maya or other software would be litrally impossible, but using this system, it auto scales and therefore greatly reduces work load for artists. This is the video I linked to about 4-5 months ago for a suggestion on how they could do water in COD for DX11: This video is good because it shows you how it can be applied at a distance to effectivly replace classic LOD models where normally at a distance I would swap a low res/poly model to a high res one resulting in objects suddenly changing shape. This also could be appled to terrain, so terrain close to you is as detailed as the human eye can see when close to the ground, and when you gain altitude it gradualy and discretly lowers the level of detail. By doing this we could gain all the benefits of high polygon terrain without the huge workload needed to model it and display it at a distance. Same thing for houses and buildings. This is Unigine Heaven demo, its coming close to two years old now: You can download it and play around with the settings yourself at: http://unigine.com/products/heaven/ Those white lines are the geometry/polygons. There are alot of "tricks" artists use in games to make you think it is a detailed surface, when in reality it is just a flat surface with bump mapping and textures applied to it to "trick" your eyes into seeing it as 3d. Now the problems with this is that it is fake, and if you look closely you can see it. Also if you look at an angle the texture warps severly and looks strange (anistrophic filtering helps reduce this). I will leave it at here 
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#6
03-22-2011, 03:06 AM
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+1
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#7
03-22-2011, 03:35 AM
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 or at least answer my own post.
Last edited by Hunden; 03-22-2011 at 03:38 AM.
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#8
03-22-2011, 01:38 AM
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Guys honestly, we need to do something about these forums. Can we let these DX arguments dissolve please? Agree to disagree? It's like watching an old married couple fight and I'm really not interested in sifting through all this just to get some of the rare bits of interesting tid bits many forum members contribute.
I mean no disrespect to both parties, but honestly I would LOVE to come here for a visit and not watch the same people battling back and forth. I know it's tough, but let that frontal lobe of your brain do some work and control that rage/rant nonsense that's really getting tired here. We should go back to constructive posts, typed in an adult manner showing respect and civility. Okay, apologize in advance for the "school master" topic of this post. We should all just calm down, have a drink and look forward to the end of a multi year development process. Some will like it, some won't...it's not going to bring about world peace or bring balance to the force.
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