Going gold?

[Kikuchiyo]

Originally Posted by Vevster

It is

But I'm guessing it's just a question of words.
Putting things in tables would clear most of the misunderstandings. That usually works with fiance guys.

That and belief that even Forbes cannot do a simple wording mistake in an article.

We all know that experts never do mistakes, just have to look at the banks & the housing market....

Anyway, better things to do, hope what I did today (not here) was useful , will tell you about it in some time.

Your CE still looks good for the moment

I think the misunderstanding is coming from you interpreting a developer's gross margin with a publisher's gross margin. You're figures aren't incorrect you are just confusing a publisher's gross margin with the developer's gross margin which is what the Forbes article was talking about. An outside developer's gross margin from a retail box sale is about half of the product's gross margin of profit. DD cuts out that sharing of the gross margin profit with the publisher.

[Vevster]

Originally Posted by Kikuchiyo

I think the misunderstanding is coming from you interpreting a developer's gross margin with a publisher's gross margin. You're figures aren't incorrect you are just confusing a publisher's gross margin with the developer's gross margin which is what the Forbes article was talking about. An outside developer's gross margin from a retail box sale is about half of the product's gross margin of profit. DD cuts out that sharing of the gross margin profit with the publisher.

Sorry, you're saying Forbes is talking about developpers Gross Margin?


Exact quote from the Forbes article
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/02...-mayhem_2.html

Second page

"Steam's appeal to publishers is in giving them the opportunity to sell directly, cutting out the profits extracted by distributors. Publishers earn a gross margin of around 70% on Steam, compared with 30% via retail stores"

Am I still the one interpreting what is written in Forbes' article?

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Vevster

Sorry, you're saying Forbes is talking about developpers Gross Margin?


Exact quote from the Forbes article
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/02...-mayhem_2.html

Second page

"Steam's appeal to publishers is in giving them the opportunity to sell directly, cutting out the profits extracted by distributors. Publishers earn a gross margin of around 70% on Steam, compared with 30% via retail stores"

Am I still the one interpreting what is written in Forbes' article?

*facepalm*

You talkeds about EA and Ubisoft financial statements which are net profit and NOT gross profit or related to a specific title and therefore its apples and oranges.

Forbes talked about gross margin, you said there numbers are wrong yet have no provided evidence or made a coherent and cogent argument as to why they are wrong.

Use your head - the gross margin taken in by selling on steam for publishers vs retail IS THE SAME AS IF IT WAS A DEV. The difference is if you have a publisher, which sells the game on steam - the publisher gets a slice of the profits that the devs would otherwise get if they sold on steam without a publisher. Therefore it DOES NOT MATTER that is a publisher making more profit buy selling on steam in this example, as it is illustrating the potential profit through retail channels. In addition their gross margin is HIGHER because steam sales take a lower % of total sales price for themselves then a retail shop would, thats not even counting other factors that would further reduce net profit. Also the publishers gross margin in this case does not take into account the $ that will be given to the devs.

Also incase you dont know you use the $ sign before you state the number like this: $10. Its not 10$ - maybe you should of studied more in primary school (so dont tell me to study harder). Your equations are also writen wrong.

You just seem to be parroting the same stuff over and over again which in no way supports your argument.

[Vevster]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

*facepalm*

You talkeds about EA and Ubisoft financial statements which are net profit and NOT gross profit or related to a specific title and therefore its apples and oranges.

Err, if you had looked at the financials, you would see "Gross margin".
That is for games. Sure, not for specific titles, all games.
What do you think you find in the Gross margin shown on these financials? Revenues from sales of oranges?

Forbes doesn't talk about specific titles either.

Did you look at the financials? Or do you just conclude that all they give is net profit?

Originally Posted by Heliocon

In addition their gross margin is HIGHER because steam sales take a lower % of total sales price for themselves then a retail shop would, thats not even counting other factors that would further reduce net profit. .

You're funny. That's exactly the point: you say the gross margin is highr because steam takes a lower % of sales than a retail shop:

I'm telling you it is not always the case, and it is certainly not what Forbes announces as demonstrated by the financials I gave.

Then you talk about net profit (irrelevant in the discussion)

And finally a gem :

Originally Posted by Heliocon

Also the publishers gross margin in this case does not take into account the $ that will be given to the devs.

Err, did you look at the defintion? That's a given, gross margin never takes into account amount given to the dev.
So I don't even see why you're mentionning that.


Also, note that Kikuchiyo said that Forbes is talking about the developpers's margin, not the publisher, while you're saying those are the same. apparently, he did not understood Forbes article the same way you did.

I am telling you that Steam does not apply the same % for everyone (dev / publisher), it varies for each game. You say otherwise, but you have not provided much proof, while requesting a lot from me.

As for the rest of your diatribe, well, if that is the forte of your argument, that shows a lot .


I didn't study in the US or UK, english is not my native language, but I should have paid more attention to how I write on a forum as someone (or a nobody) on the internet is ready to jump on a $ sign not well placed.


By the way, in correct english, I think one should write "dollar amount" and not "$ amount", as you did. Missed some classes, didn't you?


See, easy game.


Anyway, last post for me on the subjet.
Discussing percentages is funny, but only for a while. You will not convince me, I will not convince you. And it does not really matter.

Enjoy your week end, economics, Steam, the friday update and the various games you might play.

[Kikuchiyo]

Originally Posted by Vevster

Sorry, you're saying Forbes is talking about developpers Gross Margin?


Exact quote from the Forbes article
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/02...-mayhem_2.html

Second page

"Steam's appeal to publishers is in giving them the opportunity to sell directly, cutting out the profits extracted by distributors. Publishers earn a gross margin of around 70% on Steam, compared with 30% via retail stores"

Am I still the one interpreting what is written in Forbes' article?

Ugh you are being pedantic here. What is true for publishers would clearly be true for developers as well. Cutting out a middle man increases profits.

[Vevster]

Originally Posted by Kikuchiyo

Ugh you are being pedantic here. What is true for publishers would clearly be true for developers as well. Cutting out a middle man increases profits.

OK, here we go again .You cannot even admit you have been wrong on your previous statement?

Wow, you're the one who said:

Originally Posted by Kikuchiyo

I think the misunderstanding is coming from you interpreting a developer's gross margin with a publisher's gross margin. You're figures aren't incorrect you are just confusing a publisher's gross margin with the developer's gross margin which is what the Forbes article was talking about. An outside developer's gross margin from a retail box sale is about half of the product's gross margin of profit. DD cuts out that sharing of the gross margin profit with the publisher.

So it seems you thought there clearly is a difference. If not, why make this post?
This post is clearly in contradiction with the quote from Forbes. That is easy for all to see, but hey, I am pedantic...

Also:
If you are a publisher you are not cutting a middle man by using Steam. You are replacing a retailer by Steam.


End of story, you guys can now play with yourselves.

[Kikuchiyo]

Originally Posted by Vevster

OK, here we go again .You cannot even admit you have been wrong on your previous statement?

Wow, you're the one who said:



So it seems you thought there clearly is a difference. If not, why make this post?
This post is clearly in contradiction with the quote from Forbes. That is easy for all to see, but hey, I am pedantic...

Also:
If you are a publisher you are not cutting a middle man by using Steam. You are replacing a retailer by Steam.

End of story, you guys can now play with yourselves.

And if you are a developer you can cut out the publisher. Yes, perhaps I wrote things incorrectly or misinterpreted somethings.

Now, can you not admit that if a publisher's profits increase then so would the developer's? (aka you're being pedantic)

Seems you are conceding that profits increase using a DD over a retail box version which is what this whole discussion was about.

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Vevster

OK, here we go again .You cannot even admit you have been wrong on your previous statement?

Wow, you're the one who said:



So it seems you thought there clearly is a difference. If not, why make this post?
This post is clearly in contradiction with the quote from Forbes. That is easy for all to see, but hey, I am pedantic...

Also:
If you are a publisher you are not cutting a middle man by using Steam. You are replacing a retailer by Steam.


End of story, you guys can now play with yourselves.

Hey, quit being a jack ass. I made the $ comment because you said I should study harder, which is hard to take serious when you are talking about money and dont know even know where the $ sign goes.

In any case the discussion/argument was about using a publisher versus NO publisher. I stated they could choose their publisher, and that they could choose NOT to use one and instead go straight to steam as the retailer and make a LARGER profit then if they published with ubisoft and then sold on steam. You said that was not true, and still have not provided ANY evidence that says steam charges variable rates for different games (excluding use of valve's engine).
So in conclusion you should stop acting like an idiot, you yourself said that gross margin on steam using those numbers does not count devs, but publishers - therefore if there is NO publisher that gross profit goes directly to the devs and does not get split/reduced by the publisher taking the cash. Especially on a platform like steam where the publisher does little if not nothing for promotion or sales.