Spit sabotaged, Goering releieved

[PE_Tihi]

Originally Posted by swiss

Huh?
First is a joystick, second a plane.
To simulate the forces you just reduce the output(f.i. 25 when it's actually 100).
Maybe I didn't get your point.



No? It shouldn't?

Please, feel free to explain how this works in RL.

I see now I answered only a part of your questions. What you mean is the output reduction to simulate the growing stick forces at high speeds; this cannot be done by the stick output table, it is done by the game code, dynamically, according to the plane speed. (No sense in reducing it at the stick, to be in force all the time irrespective of the plane speed)

Trim surfaces on the WWII planes looked like small 'rudders on a rudder', small control surfaces that would offset the main control surface slightly from its neutral line. Trim surface had to go down a bit to push the elevator up into a climb position. It ll be clear to you , that the maximum control moment of the elevator would be slightly reduced in it's extreme upward (climb) position, trimming surface deflecting the air-stream in the 'wrong', downward direction slightly.
So , if you trim 'UP', the effect of the elevator in the extreme upwards position would be slightly reduced.
It is more or less opposite in IL2, where trimming the elevator DOWN, for example, reduces the effectiveness of the upwards elevator, unless you pull it to the really extreme position- and nobody ever does that actually.
To really simulate the trim, the stick should move slightly as you apply it, hands off. As you see, that is impossible to recreate exactly.
Take a look at the plane elevators on ground in the game, put it to climb position and use the trim. On a real plane the elevator and the stick move always together. In any position except the extreme one, the trimmed elevator in-game is some degrees off from where the stick says it should be. As the elevator nears its extreme throw, the game has to put these two positions together.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by PE_Tihi

Trim surfaces on the WWII planes looked like small 'rudders on a rudder', small control surfaces that would offset the main control surface slightly from its neutral line. Trim surface had to go down a bit to push the elevator up into a climb position. It ll be clear to you , that the maximum control moment of the elevator would be slightly reduced in it's extreme upward (climb) position, trimming surface deflecting the air-stream in the 'wrong', downward direction slightly.
So , if you trim 'UP', the effect of the elevator in the extreme upwards position would be slightly reduced.

Aha, so it does influence throw.
Funny you wrote:

As for the game-in my experience trimming does reduce the maximum throw of a control, even if that should not be so

Btw: not all planes had trim ruders, the 109/190 had some sheet metal which bent on the ground afaik.

It is more or less opposite in IL2, where trimming the elevator DOWN, for example, reduces the effectiveness of the upwards elevator, unless you pull it to the really extreme position- and nobody ever does that actually.

I'll have to check that, but...
As much as I hate to say it, I think you got a valid(your only one imho) point there.
It would also explain why using trim in IL2 reduces your turn radius.
(hear say - if it really does, that should be on the top of fixes)

[TheGrunch]

That is maybe because in one of the later patches the game's stick deflection model was changed to a force based rather than simply an absolute control deflection based one? Not sure.