Orcs on the March thread

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by atlatea

Regarding set, i think at least 2 or 3 set always completed for most people in CW.

But even if you don't have the set, another item that compensate for it usually 90% spawn. In my case, whenever i don't have scale set, slipery cuiras and twinkling always spawn, especially slippery, and both of them often spawn together.

Though i never complete even composite set other than dragon toy (just once), and scrounger ring (twice).

Maybe it's just luck.

Regarding mage, direct damage spells is worth if you manage to at least score 50 int, best if you have 70 int, +spell dmg arties, destruction 3, just cast 2 black hole/geyser and most enemies at impossible will eat dirt. Or if you like, stack astral resistance and mana (minimum of 90 mana), have red/green dragon, then cast armageddon, then time back, most enemies should be very weakened, another armageddon will instantly wipe them and you incur loss.

There are no class that can win a fight in just 2 or 3 turn without losses except mage offensive spell caster type.

Downside is you need to scan your saves to achieve very high int and you need to rest after a battle to recover your mana. But really, winning battles in impossible in 2 or 3 turn is awesome.

I suppose. I guess I hate the waiting afterwards. I can try it again, as this one saved game I have has tons of intellect!

But, for the hard battles, dealing 9-10K damage to every single stack still doesn't cut it.

Actually, my Warrior can win the Impossible Battles with smoother end game play, which is what made me so sad that mages couldn't do the smooth game play with no waiting! With the warrior, I would have to intentionally delay finishing the battle just so I can pick up the treasure chests.

I mean, put it this way. I've tried doing the Black Hole Blitz against Scrounger. Did NOT fare so well. Double Pump Geyser, no go either. Pygmy Black Hole... poo.

But, I didn't do the invisible trick though! If I do though, then the raw offense is merely just icing on the cake.

And any battle where the 9-10K damage per stack would have won the battle could have easily been replicated with the Warrior Ranged Army, with zero mana recovery required.

@King's Bounty Hunter
Is it the Power of the Horde? I think it depends on how many remaining Porc units are on the field, and it deals magic damage. (He has another astral attack one, but I doubt he could deal that much damage with just 2). Yeah, Blood shaman are nasty guys and in some ways harder to deal with than the Goblin Shaman since I hate bringing a tank up that close to the Blood shaman with Target. I really hate how Cyclops are so hard to recover, not even Rune Mages can do it.


@Mandea
I wonder if you read my entire post. If you are really an engineer, it surprises me you don't have more test trials to prove your case. I only brought up the Scale Set case to show that things are truly random for both good cases and bad. All I said was

- "maybe it is true" and that I need to do more tests to confirm
- I can't find DG's post on it, maybe it was another member who knew the drop rates and how to find them, which would conclusively decide -- e.g. it might actually be in the crossworld's world game editor.
- If after 70 games, I wasn't able to get certain items, clearly, it is possible to find a good item in the 71st run, as others have completed it too. e.g. randomness/luck/personal experience is not really a measure of the probability distribution.
- I've had bad item distribution for 15 games in a row before.
- Crossworld 1.3.0 improved Set Completion for me, I tested quite a few games here, possibly 50+.

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

Originally Posted by ckdamascus

I suppose. I guess I hate the waiting afterwards. I can try it again, as this one saved game I have has tons of intellect!

But, for the hard battles, dealing 9-10K damage to every single stack still doesn't cut it.

Actually, my Warrior can win the Impossible Battles with smoother end game play, which is what made me so sad that mages couldn't do the smooth game play with no waiting! With the warrior, I would have to intentionally delay finishing the battle just so I can pick up the treasure chests.

I mean, put it this way. I've tried doing the Black Hole Blitz against Scrounger. Did NOT fare so well. Double Pump Geyser, no go either. Pygmy Black Hole... poo.

But, I didn't do the invisible trick though! If I do though, then the raw offense is merely just icing on the cake.

And any battle where the 9-10K damage per stack would have won the battle could have easily been replicated with the Warrior Ranged Army, with zero mana recovery required.

Doesn't sound like you're having much fun lol

Same. I'm finding using the Mage a real grind as direct magic damage isn't oo good atm

Thanks for all the info guys

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Kings Bounty Hunter

Doesn't sound like you're having much fun lol

Same. I'm finding using the Mage a real grind as direct magic damage isn't oo good atm

Thanks for all the info guys

Actually it is really strange. The Mage Summoner build is surprisingly very smooth, in some ways more smooth than a Warrior.

If the enemy has any level 4s, I will almost definitely sheep most of them by the end of the battle. Dual Rune Mages blasting away, at 30% chance to sheep someone, it gets pretty bad for the enemy.

Also, this lets me
a) dig up 3 chests
b) use the 16 rage for 19 mana exchange
c) resurrect units at my leisure

If the enemy has level 5s, I have to blitz the living daylights out of them with my Summons and debuffs. Still doable. If there are dragons, I got the Shield of Reknos (AND there is an Eye of the Dragon, but alas, I can't go back to Debir, stupid quasi-speed runs).

Once the level 5s are down, or under control, I repeat the dig/mana restoration process.

Now, the Warrior builds I do, while they are DEADLY fast in raw combat, leaves far less margin for error.

The problem is, while I obliterate really fast, it leaves far less time to dig up chests and I almost always have to cast Phantom for the Royal Griffins, Turn Back Time, or some Debuff (Pygmy, Helplessness, or Plague!). If I have a breather, I can drop Dragon Dive, but I am almost always pumping the 25 for 25 mana accelerator.

Sometimes I will barely have enough mana to do the resurrection as needed. It really depends. As a mage, it is more of an inconvenience, since my Summoner Mage build almost ALWAYS has max mana after the battle.

See, the warrior can afford to start off with no mana, since Bloodthirst will give him enough rage to start the Mana Accelerator machine again.

That said, it is possible to do direct damage, but it usually requires a nifty trick like Invisible Emerald Green Dragon. Early on though, Black Dragons are great to run around while you do direct damage. I mutated this stategy to have a helpful friend, Ancient Phoenix and his side kick, Dragon fo Chaos though.

In the Wizard Tower, I did a lot of direct damage too. I'm not there with my Summon Army yet, but I don't think they will survive easily.

Oh, as an aside, unlike the Warrior, my particular Mage build seems verry weak against Archdemons.

I'm not looking forward to facing Samman and I ran from the Archdemon stacks in Montero's Caves.

Also, I haven't fought Scrounger in a while since I mentally hit a strange block where I immediately proceed to try to beat the game or give up on my current game due to repetition (or perceived failure in my battle plan). I don't think fighting her will be fun either.

[Minecontrol]

Have you considered Pain Mirror?

The percentage damage returned increases with intellect and (i think) is a low mana spell (10 points) Meaning with higher magic you could cast it twice.

Maybe try sending up a deliberately weak enemy beside the Orc Savages (Veterans) and watch them rip at them. It could be Thorn summons or something... Then painmirror the Orcs. It was a spell i found great use for in KBTL vanilla (against the undead general) i have yet to use it in this game but an ability to return in proportion to the enemy their damage is potentially very useful (especially against high attack enemies like Scrounger's veterans), it's a great equaliser.

In that battle i find if you can stop the brutal melee attackers (the two level 5 stacks and the Orc Veterans) and control the effects of the Gob Shamans, then that is what tips the tide.

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

Veteran orcs just ran around my trap lol jesus christ give me a break ha ha

direct line to my army and he does that as if he knew the trap was there!

Marvelous

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Kings Bounty Hunter

Veteran orcs just ran around my trap lol jesus christ give me a break ha ha

direct line to my army and he does that as if he knew the trap was there!

Marvelous

They don't call them Veterans for nothing.

@Atlatea, so, I spent quite a few tries trying to win against Scrounger. Phantom Rune Mage Flood, Target + Battle Cry, I even "cheated" and used Black Knights too as my Target. Nothing was working. There was too many high profile stacks. Even if I managed to sheep the Goblin Shaman, the 47 Orc Chieftains and 47 Ogres would eventually run me over, and they were eyeing my Black Dragon in a really nasty way.

The Mega Summon Team was very strong, but it would eventually succumb to the overwhelming force.

I was lucky, as this time, there were no Orc Veterans, but the Ogre stack was larger and she sure had a LOT of pesky Goblin Shaman.

Then I remembered the last time I beat Scrounger, I had enough mana to use Black Hole at least once, this time I got a lot of GREAT items, so, why not?

I backtracked to beat the Nameless Island mission, got Black Hole.

Went all out with mana, using Wanderer Scrolls got 186 mana, much higher than what I had last time. Didn't bother with Destruction Level 3 though. Had about base 51 intellect, so 61 with a scroll.

Target Black Knights + Black Hole, bam, those pesky Ogre and Ogre Chieftain (oops, Orc Chieftain) were weakened as if hit by a low level Ball of Lightning. I even threw in a Ball of Lightning first by drinking a Potion of Rage ahead of time.

Next Round, Awaken Dragon (sniffles, raised it to level 3 and jacked up my Black Hole to level 3, now I have 4 crystals left, ), Ball of Lightning, then Black Hole AGAIN.

Once I had breathing room, I summoned up the usual Dragon of Chaos and Ancient Phoenix. Threw in one more Target, one EvilN, and a couple of heals.

I don't think I even used a Phantom Rune Mage for resurrection or Turn Back Time.

Seems like in conjunction with the strategies I used to beat Scrounger, Black Hole was the catalyst for victory.

I don't want to say it was "easy", as this game has a way of karmically biting me in the butt.

But, let's just say, I actually dug up all three treasure chests, ended up with 41 Rage and 127 Mana (out of 186). I definitely could have extended for max mana.

Black hole only did 4600-7600 damage, but the key was hurting the high profile units all together (Goblin Shaman: once Target ran out, or... let Goblin Shaman burn it away on Phantoms, Orc Chieftain would damage Rune Mages unless I used slow, Ogre would smash up things unless I stopped him).

When I tried to divide and conquer, Scrounger would merely Phantom up the other large stacks, even the sheeped stacks ala Rune Mages!

That said, I got Elkonium (the +30 mana) staff from the battle, but immediately afterwards, I got the legendary... Gloves of the Destroyer. Why? I dont' need two fo those darn things. Bleh. Bleh!!!!

I wonder if the game biases Scrounger's composite item based on class?

[ckdamascus]

So, I forgot I left two Gloves of the Destroyer on when I fought Samman. I still had all my nifty wanderer scroll buffs. Still only level 1 destruction.

You weren't kidding, atlatea.

Samman down in 3 rounds. He could not even get a single Armaggedon off.

[jake21]

So how many quests have people found? I seem to get exactly 92 everytime I play (steam version).

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by jake21

So how many quests have people found? I seem to get exactly 92 everytime I play (steam version).

Yeah, I got 92. Somehow, unicornxp got 93. I'm not sure where I am missing it.

[atlatea]

I guess that Scrounger is an exception to all classes, not only mage, most of the time, scrounger need unusual tactic.

Pain mirror also seems to be the bane of archdemon, sometimes pain mirror
is your best friend if you got hit by that halving attack.

Regarding mage,

Well, 8k dmg per turn to all unit is already more than sufficient.

When playing direct damage mage, the damage spells are mean to much much soften your enemies, it's a no brainer opening. Then your unit finish them off. Damage spells won't do 80%-90 % the damage, it usually do 60%-65%, sometimes 70%-75%. It never means to be the winning button, it's just there to help you win. However compared to other mage type, all you do is just blast and blast them first, then do anything you want later, unlike other type of mage, other type of mage need more thinking.

Some suggestion, try most elves unit, it works best with direct damage mage. Your elves will crowd control all your enemies, effectively delaying them while you're having fun dooming them with your mass destruction spells.

Summoner mage have more efficient control to mana, however you still need to think, while damage mage is pure no brainer once you have very high int and the right unit composition.

Main problem with pure summoner mage is they rely heavily on fire damage. Damage mage can deal with any kind of threat. With the right units, it offer more versality in exchange for mana efficiency.

In case of warrior 100% ranged crit, direct damage mage slightly wins in term of resurrecting and damage wise (unless the warrior use goblins) at early turn. However on longer turn, warrior win, because mage will surely run ouf of mana if she keeps casting mass damage spells. But versality once again favor mage.

Why don't try hybrid mage?

I've tried this, mage with very high int, 50-70 ish, minimum is 50, unit is mostly elves and humans, reason? crowd control is caster best friend whether it is mage or paladin, having both summoner and destruction at lv 3, play style is damage spell and summoner, it depends on the situation.

From my experience, it's the most versatile of all mage, and probably the most powerful one. The only downside is you need insane amount of magic crystal

Oh, as an aside, unlike the Warrior, my particular Mage build seems verry weak against Archdemons.

I'm not looking forward to facing Samman and I ran from the Archdemon stacks in Montero's Caves.

Try pain mirror, i was once losing hope againts archdemon in montero caves, then i consider pain mirror as my last resort, and it works, especially if they do halving attack.

Honestly i didn't even think that pain mirror was that useful.