Friday 2010-11-12 Dev. update and Discussion

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by swiss

Maybe a lot of the ppl think if they had different ammo/mix/more or less tracers they would score more kills.

I hate to tell you but: That's an illusion.

It's not the ammo, it's the pilot.

I disagree, and I tested this out in Il-2 by launching a mission against a lone (friendly) heinkel in Il-2 flying the Hurricane mark 1 and then the Spit Mark V using only the .303's. Consequently, the Hurricane would spit the tracer from all 8 guns, whereas the Spit would only be shooting it from 4 (so half).
I scored more hits with the spit than I did with the Hurri in a period of 15 seconds firing short bursts. The reason? I could see my target, and where my tracer was going! I know exactly what you mean, Swiss, but many pilots chose to limit their tracer to just one or 2 guns to give a clearer view of the target when firing (even burst firing with the 8-gun planes can be hard).
As with ammo, I agree; more destructive ammo, in ever sense, just compensates for pilot error (unless the pilot is skilled enough to know when to use it).

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, but that's my experience from Il-2 and BoB2-WoV. I've ready many accounts from pilots who have said the same thing, too.

[Redwan]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I've ready many accounts from pilots who have said the same thing, too.

Do you mean real pilots ?

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by Redwan

Do you mean real pilots ?

Yes; real ww2 pilots

[Redwan]

Its seems obvious that tracers are very helpfull when aiming at the ennemi. I'm surprised that it doesn't seem obvious for anywone ... who has played IL2.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by Redwan

Its seems obvious that tracers are very helpfull when aiming at the ennemi. I'm surprised that it doesn't seem obvious for anywone ... who has played IL2.

I'll have to go back and find it, but I do remember a report that some groups eliminated tracers completely and their effectiveness went up.

Think about it...on a longer deflection shot, tracers help. But when you a snuggled up on someone's six at close range, tracers don't matter at all. Flashes from hits tell you everything you need to know.

All AP and incendiary rounds would do more damage than replacing 20% of the ammo with less destructive tracer rounds.

Now I guess I have to go find the documents on groups eliminating tracers

Splitter

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Splitter

I'll have to go back and find it, but I do remember a report that some groups eliminated tracers completely and their effectiveness went up.

Think about it...on a longer deflection shot, tracers help. But when you a snuggled up on someone's six at close range, tracers don't matter at all. Flashes from hits tell you everything you need to know.

All AP and incendiary rounds would do more damage than replacing 20% of the ammo with less destructive tracer rounds.

Now I guess I have to go find the documents on groups eliminating tracers

Splitter

I remember reading the report as well. One of the USAAF fighter groups (or perhaps it was just a single squadron) decided to remove tracers from their loadouts. They found their overall scores were going up. Possibly because the enemy was not alerted by the tracers flying near their plane and possibly because it forced the pilots to not rely on tracers and instead do range/angle calculations completely in their head.

Depending on the virtual situation the lack of tracers may be or not be a useful feature. Either way I'd love to see customizable loadouts. If someone wants to not use tracers...great. If someone wants to load up a ton of tracers then ok.

[1.JaVA_Sharp]

Originally Posted by IceFire

I remember reading the report as well. One of the USAAF fighter groups (or perhaps it was just a single squadron) decided to remove tracers from their loadouts. They found their overall scores were going up. Possibly because the enemy was not alerted by the tracers flying near their plane and possibly because it forced the pilots to not rely on tracers and instead do range/angle calculations completely in their head.

Depending on the virtual situation the lack of tracers may be or not be a useful feature. Either way I'd love to see customizable loadouts. If someone wants to not use tracers...great. If someone wants to load up a ton of tracers then ok.

easy solution: tracers or no tracers become a difficulty option. But what does Oleg say?

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I disagree, and I tested this out in Il-2 by launching a mission against a lone (friendly) heinkel in Il-2 flying the Hurricane mark 1 and then the Spit Mark V using only the .303's. Consequently, the Hurricane would spit the tracer from all 8 guns, whereas the Spit would only be shooting it from 4 (so half).
I scored more hits with the spit than I did with the Hurri in a period of 15 seconds firing short bursts. The reason? I could see my target, and where my tracer was going! I know exactly what you mean, Swiss, but many pilots chose to limit their tracer to just one or 2 guns to give a clearer view of the target when firing (even burst firing with the 8-gun planes can be hard).
As with ammo, I agree; more destructive ammo, in ever sense, just compensates for pilot error (unless the pilot is skilled enough to know when to use it).

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, but that's my experience from Il-2 and BoB2-WoV. I've ready many accounts from pilots who have said the same thing, too.

Your problem may be that you are too far away and impatient. Practice getting closer, and work on leading your target when firing