Friday 2010-11-12 Dev. update and Discussion

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I'd be interested to know too. Based on what he's revealed about modelling different armament types, I'd imagine it would be included. It's quite an important part of the shooting experience IMO

In (virtual) reality though, when blazing away at a Ju88 with two 109's on our tails, how are we going to assess whether a certain ammo mix is more or less effective than another? Or even more true to life?

I know I've not even considered ammo in IL2, other than the obvious differences between MG's and Cannon and the different calibres.

Perhaps I'm not cool, calm and steely eyed enough to assess these complicated issues in the heat of combat?!

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

In (virtual) reality though, when blazing away at a Ju88 with two 109's on our tails, how are we going assess whether a certain ammo mix is more or less effective than another? Or even more true to life?

I know I've not even considered ammo in IL2, other than the obvious differences between MG's and Cannon and the different calibres.

Perhaps I'm not cool, calm and steely eyed enough to assess these complicated issues in the heat of combat?!

I think we are all going to learn alot about type of ammo we use in the SOW.

The British aircraft are using pea shooter .303.

It will take alot of lead to put down any German aircraft with .303 unless we have some sophisticated ammo loadouts.

I still do the BOB II WOV. I can't tell you how many times I have emptied my guns and didn't knock down a single aircraft.

Finally, I learned to get extremely close before firing...then and only then do I get kills.

The SOW will definitely be a new world for most of us after we've been flying the late war aircraft in IL2 with all the firepower available.

6guns x 50calibers vs 6 guns X .303 calibers

Yes, I know the British did some miraculous work in the BOB.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I think we are all going to learn alot about type of ammo we use in the SOW.
The British aircraft are using pea shooter .303.
It will take alot of lead to put down any German aircraft with .303 unless we have some sophisticated ammo loadouts.
I still do the BOB II WOV. I can't tell you how many times I have emptied my guns and didn't knock down a single aircraft.
Finally, I learned to get extremely close before firing...then and only then do I get kills.
The SOW will definitely be a new world for most of us after we've been flying the late war aircraft in IL2 with all the firepower available.
6guns x 50calibers vs 8 guns X .303 calibers
Yes, I know the British did some miraculous work in the BOB.

Agreed! What I meant was how will we know if a kill is made due to ammo mix, as against just happening to hit a vital part of the aircraft whilst trying to avoid return fire and the fighter escorts?

The 8 and 12 x .303 gun Hurris were in IL2 though, from FB on, also in Pacific Fighters, and worked fine. Didn't the early P-40's in IL2 also carry .303's? Or were they all .50 cal?

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

What I meant was how will we know if a kill is made due to ammo mix, as against just happening to hit a vital part of the aircraft whilst trying to avoid return fire and the fighter escorts?

Why would you need to know? If you want to know for training purposes, just set-up an off-line mission where you shoot at an enemy bomber that is unarmed, and keep practicing with different ammo mixes, and see how much damage you can do. Am I missing your point (if so, what is it)?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

Why would you need to know? If you want to know for training purposes, just set-up an off-line mission where you shoot at an enemy bomber that is unarmed, and keep practicing with different ammo mixes, and see how much damage you can do. Am I missing your point (if so, what is it)?

I don't really need to know, which is my point!

Phil called it 'an important part of the shooting experience'.
If I'm shooting at something in online combat, there is so much movement that it's impossible to see how many bullet strikes there are in any given burst, let alone what proportion of which bullet made the hit.

Plus, I'm usually far too adrenalised to analyse the results with any semblance of empiricism.

[philip.ed]

By important, I also meant the fun-factor; the fun (be it slightly destructive) of seeing your bullets destroy the enemy A/C. Personally, I'd love to try out different types of ammo, as it would really put me into the genre, and feel like I have a lot of control over my own, personal, plane. at the end of the day, whether you can shoot down that enemy A/C can be a life or death situation. Luckily this isn't the case literally for us, but it really adds to the immersion

[swiss]

Maybe a lot of the ppl think if they had different ammo/mix/more or less tracers they would score more kills.

I hate to tell you but: That's an illusion.

It's not the ammo, it's the pilot.

[Trumper]

A huge majority of real fighter pilots never scored a kill let alone made "Ace".
In reality a large percentage of us will get shot down,injured and killed before getting any hits to take the opposition down.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by swiss

Maybe a lot of the ppl think if they had different ammo/mix/more or less tracers they would score more kills.

I hate to tell you but: That's an illusion.

It's not the ammo, it's the pilot.

Well I suppose that's what I was trying to say, albeit slightly more diplomatically.

(I'm upset no-one thought my 'ball-shot' joke was funny!)

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by swiss

Maybe a lot of the ppl think if they had different ammo/mix/more or less tracers they would score more kills.

I hate to tell you but: That's an illusion.

It's not the ammo, it's the pilot.

I disagree, and I tested this out in Il-2 by launching a mission against a lone (friendly) heinkel in Il-2 flying the Hurricane mark 1 and then the Spit Mark V using only the .303's. Consequently, the Hurricane would spit the tracer from all 8 guns, whereas the Spit would only be shooting it from 4 (so half).
I scored more hits with the spit than I did with the Hurri in a period of 15 seconds firing short bursts. The reason? I could see my target, and where my tracer was going! I know exactly what you mean, Swiss, but many pilots chose to limit their tracer to just one or 2 guns to give a clearer view of the target when firing (even burst firing with the 8-gun planes can be hard).
As with ammo, I agree; more destructive ammo, in ever sense, just compensates for pilot error (unless the pilot is skilled enough to know when to use it).

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, but that's my experience from Il-2 and BoB2-WoV. I've ready many accounts from pilots who have said the same thing, too.