Friday 2010-11-12 Dev. update and Discussion

[klem]

Thanks philip,

I did know that background but I don't know if Oleg is giving us DeWilde in SoW. Actually, I don't know if he gives us it in IL-2, for some reason I have it in mind that he didn't, but let's stay on SoW

[philip.ed]

I'd be interested to know too. Based on what he's revealed about modelling different armament types, I'd imagine it would be included. It's quite an important part of the shooting experience IMO

[MD_Titus]

i lol'd at this thread. then i held my head in my hands.

anyway.

varying ammo loadouts... has that been covered in any way? where we could make the choice, as with some of the new 4.09 rides, whether we take tracer in all guns etc? would it be practical/historic to specify belting in either the bob or later theatres?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I'd be interested to know too. Based on what he's revealed about modelling different armament types, I'd imagine it would be included. It's quite an important part of the shooting experience IMO

In (virtual) reality though, when blazing away at a Ju88 with two 109's on our tails, how are we going to assess whether a certain ammo mix is more or less effective than another? Or even more true to life?

I know I've not even considered ammo in IL2, other than the obvious differences between MG's and Cannon and the different calibres.

Perhaps I'm not cool, calm and steely eyed enough to assess these complicated issues in the heat of combat?!

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

In (virtual) reality though, when blazing away at a Ju88 with two 109's on our tails, how are we going assess whether a certain ammo mix is more or less effective than another? Or even more true to life?

I know I've not even considered ammo in IL2, other than the obvious differences between MG's and Cannon and the different calibres.

Perhaps I'm not cool, calm and steely eyed enough to assess these complicated issues in the heat of combat?!

I think we are all going to learn alot about type of ammo we use in the SOW.

The British aircraft are using pea shooter .303.

It will take alot of lead to put down any German aircraft with .303 unless we have some sophisticated ammo loadouts.

I still do the BOB II WOV. I can't tell you how many times I have emptied my guns and didn't knock down a single aircraft.

Finally, I learned to get extremely close before firing...then and only then do I get kills.

The SOW will definitely be a new world for most of us after we've been flying the late war aircraft in IL2 with all the firepower available.

6guns x 50calibers vs 6 guns X .303 calibers

Yes, I know the British did some miraculous work in the BOB.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I think we are all going to learn alot about type of ammo we use in the SOW.
The British aircraft are using pea shooter .303.
It will take alot of lead to put down any German aircraft with .303 unless we have some sophisticated ammo loadouts.
I still do the BOB II WOV. I can't tell you how many times I have emptied my guns and didn't knock down a single aircraft.
Finally, I learned to get extremely close before firing...then and only then do I get kills.
The SOW will definitely be a new world for most of us after we've been flying the late war aircraft in IL2 with all the firepower available.
6guns x 50calibers vs 8 guns X .303 calibers
Yes, I know the British did some miraculous work in the BOB.

Agreed! What I meant was how will we know if a kill is made due to ammo mix, as against just happening to hit a vital part of the aircraft whilst trying to avoid return fire and the fighter escorts?

The 8 and 12 x .303 gun Hurris were in IL2 though, from FB on, also in Pacific Fighters, and worked fine. Didn't the early P-40's in IL2 also carry .303's? Or were they all .50 cal?

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

What I meant was how will we know if a kill is made due to ammo mix, as against just happening to hit a vital part of the aircraft whilst trying to avoid return fire and the fighter escorts?

Why would you need to know? If you want to know for training purposes, just set-up an off-line mission where you shoot at an enemy bomber that is unarmed, and keep practicing with different ammo mixes, and see how much damage you can do. Am I missing your point (if so, what is it)?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

Why would you need to know? If you want to know for training purposes, just set-up an off-line mission where you shoot at an enemy bomber that is unarmed, and keep practicing with different ammo mixes, and see how much damage you can do. Am I missing your point (if so, what is it)?

I don't really need to know, which is my point!

Phil called it 'an important part of the shooting experience'.
If I'm shooting at something in online combat, there is so much movement that it's impossible to see how many bullet strikes there are in any given burst, let alone what proportion of which bullet made the hit.

Plus, I'm usually far too adrenalised to analyse the results with any semblance of empiricism.

[klem]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

Why would you need to know? If you want to know for training purposes, just set-up an off-line mission where you shoot at an enemy bomber that is unarmed, and keep practicing with different ammo mixes, and see how much damage you can do. Am I missing your point (if so, what is it)?

The reason I am hoping for DeWilde (reasonably simulated) is that in IL-2 I am often thinking I am not hitting the target when my buddies are saying things like "good hits klem". For some reason many of my hits don't show to me.

Perhaps my assumption that we don't have DeWilde in IL-2 is wrong and it is my PC (AMD 3800+, 2.4GHz, 2 x 7800GTs). If there's no DeWilde, perhaps not all other ammo hits 'flash' on impact (but my buddies see them?). Perhaps it won't happen in SoW but I would be happier to know we have DeWilde

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

In (virtual) reality though, when blazing away at a Ju88 with two 109's on our tails, how are we going assess whether a certain ammo mix is more or less effective than another? Or even more true to life?

I know I've not even considered ammo in IL2, other than the obvious differences between MG's and Cannon and the different calibres.

Perhaps I'm not cool, calm and steely eyed enough to assess these complicated issues in the heat of combat?!

In Il-2, I fly the Hurri mark 1's a lot and those 8 .303's pump out a lot of tracer! So much so that it can impair my visibility of the target. If I could select to have tracer in just 2-guns, my shooting would be a lot better

Each to his own, though.

Nearmiss; I know what you mean, but I don't post to raise my post-count. I never look at it in any-case. It's only my interest in SoW which has raised it so high.
I do fly Il-2 a lot (or have done in any case). Recently, I've put work first as I prefer to fly longer sorties (based on BoB campaigns and day-to-day episodes) and I don't have enough time, really, to fully enjoy Il-2 as I'd like

Battle of Britain aviation history is my main interest (I collect BoB flight-gear) and a lot of my reading is both fictional and non-fictional books on this subject

Thankyou.