Real World BoB Hurricane Pilot's views on SOW

[winny]

Originally Posted by swiss

You're right, only - no one did.

Other than that, I tend to trust paper over memories.

well, whatever.

Really? Even your own? I was in a car crash 20 years ago. I remember it all vividly.

As for the BoB pilot saying the hurricane would have been shot down long before it got to the Heinkels he's absolutley right. Because no matter how realistic SoW is it's still a game. If you approached like that in IL-2 you'd get killed pretty quick. In real life it's not a case of seeing how much damage your plane can take before you bail out completley uninjured. There were real bullets. It only takes one to kill the pilot.

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by winny

In fact it's a downright insult to disregard the stories in defence of a game, because they were risking thier lives.

Sorry, I have to ask:
Does this actually make any sense? I mean, when we really pause and think it through?

Just because someone risked their lives, doesn't mean that they are right. Similarly, just because someone is an eyewitness it doesn't mean that they are right (it just means that they probably are). It is worth respecting people for what they did and went through. But this shouldn't translate into a completely unquestioning attitude, where any other thoughts are considered sacrilegious.

It is disturbingly like not questioning politicians on the value of a war because soldiers are fighting in it (albeit 10000 times less important).

I really, truly, liked your point about the fact that no one dies in SoW. I think it is incisive and really brings out the heart of the subject.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by swiss

Look, the last thing I want is to degrade/belittle them.

But: If you asked me about things that happened 20years ago, most of it is blurry - and black and white.
I could'nt tell for sure.
20years.

Or eyewitnesses in a criminal case, they cannot remember all details, they may think they remember, but their mind is just playing a trick on them.

That's how our brain is built, can't change this fact.

I also had a close relative who served in the 8th army as tank driver, I sure enjoyed listening to all that stories - but from a objective point of view....you can't tell if it's all true, somethings could be made up by the brain, unintentionally.

Edit:
We have a guy here in the form who interviews Russian veteran pilots.
I you read the interviews, you find several corrections by the interviewer - some facts were just plain wrong in the memories of the vets.
Do you think they "lied" intentionally"?

No, I’d say they answered to the best of their recollections. But also I wouldn't be labelling something as "plain wrong" when your judgement is based on documents sometimes written up months, or even years after the event by people who had not participated in the event.

Now I come from a large family and Dad has a hard time calling any of us boys name (This isn't an old age thing- it's been the same since I was a kid) , but he can still remember the name of the man who he met only once for a hour or two at most when their companies were combined and the guy was shot through the throat next to him.

I was present at a function where one of the man’s relatives asked if anyone knew the man as they to wanted find out details of the man’s service history. Dad and a few others that had been present were able to relate in detail the events leading up to the man’s death and provide a form closure to a grieving family some 65 years after the event.

The official fact’s given to the family was just a date and place of death. In just a few minutes the veterans were able to supply details about the lay of the land, the type of vegetation, the dispersal of the troops on both sides, the objectives of what they were trying to achieve and what went wrong. It actually gave a meaning to the man’s death.

I accept that there are going to be inaccuracies, confusions and errors in details. My position is that these errors are also part of the official records of the time and in many cases it’s impossible to make a judgment on the TRUTH of the events.

Cheers!

[mazex]

Originally Posted by swiss

Look, the last thing I want is to degrade/belittle them.

But: If you asked me about things that happened 20years ago, most of it is blurry - and black and white.
I could'nt tell for sure.
20years.

My worst IRL incident as a pilot happened 24 years ago (i just described it in the YAK-thread):

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...8&postcount=26

I can remember silly details like that I was a bit to the right of the ideal line when the tow pilot disconnected, the line was not loaded fully, it was sunny with 2/8 of Cumulus, the exact jacket I had on me, the jacket the instructor had on him etc - but what did I do more in 1986... Ehh - chased girls and drank cheap wine at high school parties probably? Who did I date? Don't remember... I am pretty sure I will remember the incident when I am 90 too if I get the privilege to remain "clear in my mind".

So if I remember an incident like that where no one got hurt, why should not a BoB pilot remember what is was like back then?

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by mazex

My worst IRL incident as a pilot happened 24 years ago (i just described it in the YAK-thread):

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...8&postcount=26


So if I remember an incident like that where no one got hurt, why should not a BoB pilot remember what is was like back then?

Because each sortie would merge into the next like sugar in water. Apart from episodes of considerable interest/excitement/danger etc, I can't see a pilot remembering everything as clearly as one might in such an incident as yours.
I do, however, think that their combined recollection of different episodes is enough to give a pretty damn good impression IMO Although if, for instance, you asked the pilot about tracer; would he be able to distinguish between the different types he may have used? I'm not sure.
I think a veterans perspective is the best evidence to give. At the end of the day, if you can fly a sortie in SoW and come about with nearly exactly the same images as the pilots of 1940, then that is (for me) a near perfect sim

[winny]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Because each sortie would merge into the next like sugar in water. Apart from episodes of considerable interest/excitement/danger etc, I can't see a pilot remembering everything as clearly as one might in such an incident as yours.
I do, however, think that their combined recollection of different episodes is enough to give a pretty damn good impression IMO Although if, for instance, you asked the pilot about tracer; would he be able to distinguish between the different types he may have used? I'm not sure.
I think a veterans perspective is the best evidence to give. At the end of the day, if you can fly a sortie in SoW and come about with nearly exactly the same images as the pilots of 1940, then that is (for me) a near perfect sim

The only thing the BoB veteran needs to remember is that if you flew up behind a gaggle of heinkels like that you'd get killed. Not what day it was, or what he was wearing or what coulor the tracer was.. This thread is confusing memories and experience. Is anyone here arguing against what the guy said? I'm pretty sure you'd only need to see a friend killed once for it to register.. and for you not to forget it.

[bf-110]

Not really a commercial view,but more as "we are bringing the experience of flying a WWII plane back".

[Avimimus]

I'm just waiting for the SoW release and the endless series of posts about AI "sniper" gunners taking out Hurricanes with MG-15s...

(Once the AI is finished and not on easy settings for debugging)