Friday 2010-08-13 Dev. update and Discussions

[Sutts]

Thanks Oleg, another great update. That first shot is truly amazing. Trees look great up close too. I'm so looking forward to seeing the aircrew animations....they'll really highlight the human dimension of combat and could quite possibly stir the emotions. No longer are we shooting at just a simple lump of metal.

In terms of the map, will it be possible in SoW to zoom smoothly in and out of the map instead of the fixed zoom levels we have in IL2? I never really liked the interface in IL2 where you have to cycle through the zoom levels with the mouse click. Just a minor detail though.

Cheers

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by slm

This moving pilot's head has been possible in some other sims for quite a while - since TrackIR SW made it possible. I've tried it in MS Flight Simulator and it is quite useful during taxiing, landing etc. This feature also minimizes need for discussions about pilot position inside the cockpit, like in FW-190s. If you can't see well from one position, just move your head.

Although I must say that it would be quite useful if you could enable/disable this head movement. In other words, you could change head position to some place, then press a key to "lock" it and after that head would stay in place. You could still turn the head up/down and left/right. If you wanted to move head position, press a key to "unlock" it and you'd have 6DOF head movement again.

Sorry I was not clear. I have not flown X-Plane or MSFS with anything like TrackIR. What I was talking about was "in game" functionality where you could move your perspective around the cockipit using only the arrow keys. Heck, you can even move your perspective (head) outside the cockpit in this manner and leave it there lol. While the latter is not realistic, it is very useful to be able to change one's perspective inside the cockpit and "leave it there" for a while.

Even though I was unclear, your points are well taken. Some sort of head tracking software adds something to a sim.

I just recently downloaded Facetracknoir which uses face tracking software to achieve a similar effect to TrackIR (except it is free lol). I have only tried it with IL-2 and only in "free flight" training missions while working out the kinks. But WOW, what a difference in experience. While it does not (as far as I can tell) let you tilt your head or move along the X,Y,or Z axis for a change in perspective, it does track your face as a substitute for the HAT switch...you can look up, down, left or right "automatically".

Now I have to try it while shooting down enemies . I do know one key turns it on or off while flying so that probably helps for people that want to get stable for shooting.

I do hope Oleg and Crew look at some of the other functionality items listed recently in this thread. "Volunteering" for specialized missions such as recon, rescue, and such would add a lot to the game. I love me some marksmanship practice, but dodging 109's by ducking into clouds while on a recon mission has appeal.

I wish (there is that word again) that we could get functionality updates like we get graphics updates, but that information is probably too sensitive from the competitive perspective.

Splitter

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Splitter

Great points!

..... to move your "head position" in 3D....... the down arrow makes you "slouch" and the up arrow lets you sit up tall to see more landscape and less instrument panel. It is VERY helpful when flying on instruments such as in bad weather....................

It's just me, but I am much more interested in such functional feature than I am in leaf sizes and whether tree trunks are visible from the air. Most people will have to tone down the really neat visual effects anyway to maintain 30fps or more.

the point about including the potential for very high detailed scenery (and drivable ground vehicles, controllable ships, etc..) is that if this is built in from the start of SoW-BoB then it makes the sim engine scalable for the future as hardware increases, and then you end up with BOTH aspects (the best of both worlds so to speak). if you dont include those improved scenery and expandable aspects of the sim while you build it, like oleg is currently doing, then in 2 years it is looking very out of date again and you have to start all over again

Originally Posted by Splitter

Ideally, I would like a sim that fulfills the dual roles of combat flight and flight sim.

i have repeatedly asked questions to Oleg and Co allong those lines over the years, but i dont think the idea has received much traction, and i am not sure oleg entirely got my point either.
1) for your idea of having a "pure" civilian flightsim using the SoW-BoB engine i think is probably already possible at release time. "all you need" is for 3e party to build some civilian aircraft for you to fly, turn off all hostile aircraft and AA etc.., and you can VFR fly around peacefully at your hearts content. and as long as the 3e party civilian planes dont use instruments more complex then ww2 era (or the single russian modern day test plane we get included with BoB), then any civilian plane can be built for BoB imo.
2) what i am hoping/wanting more of however is to have many non-combat elements and other war related features possible in BoB, and have included many more other aviation elements that were part of ww2 aviation in a "wartime environment". eg:
- be able to fly supply missions (and ask for fighter escorts if required), do parachutists drops, fly photo reconnaissance missions, fly VIP's to certain locations (mission being to get them safely to their destination with hostile elements posibly being encountered),
- fly in supplies and replacement aircraft parts to airbases and troops under siege to keep that airbase or troop formation functional,
- be able to use real life tactics to reduce fighting ability of the enemy by damaging their supply convoys and bridges and fuel storage etc.
- have non combat missions like lying new replacement aircraft from the factories to specific airfields using VFR, maybe even fly some civilian liners or transport mission (inside the same active combat zone that is taking place on the dynamic server), fly red cross evac missions in and out of combat area's, rescue downed pilots from behind enemy lines (having to land for ex in a specific field at a partic rendezvous time, rescue pilots from the sea, etc..

none of those aspects would require much time or programing to add, all work with the already existing elements and just need a few different minor elements added. it would open up the sim to a whole additional series of potential customers, and adds a new area of interest for current il2 users.

Originally Posted by Splitter

I know that is wanting too much but all I have to do is fly a vintage WWII aircraft in X-Plane and then in IL-2 to feel the difference in flight model and functionality. I'd rather have better functionality than visuals IF I had to choose.

a better and more future proof BoB-SoW sim does not exclude having improved functionality and features like you listed. you just need to make a strong argument to oleg about what exactly to be included, because imho he might not have thought of it or even seen it as something that might be needed to make his new sim more complete

[AndyJWest]

what i am hoping/wanting more of however is to have many non-combat elements and other war related features possible in BoB
...
none of those aspects would require much time or programing to add, all work with the already existing elements and just need a few different minor elements added...

Have you ever done any computer programming, Zapatista?

[Romanator21]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JG52Uther View Post
Is my perception off? The crew of the Ju88 and Hurricane pilot look too small to me.

i noticed that to in the last set of screenshots but wasnt going to mention it. from previous comments from oleg on this it is a compromise they made while resolving a "collision bug" (if the pilot is modeled real proportional size, currently he pokes occasionally through the aircraft cockpit skin "boundaries" when he moves). if having the smaller crew is a short term compromise to get around this at the moment and will be fixed in one of the early patches, then i dont see it as a reason to cause current additional release delays. oleg also stated the 1e person view from the cockpit is visually correct and doesnt reflect having a "shorter" pilot.

The pilots here seem to be to scale.

In Il-2 they are a little large. In fact, there are two types of pilots in Il-2: One who sits in the plane, and one who falls through the sky and opens a chute. They happen to be different sizes (and wear different colored uniforms) for some reason, but the latter is more to scale.

As for collision bugs: Oleg stated that this was regarding crew animations. You cannot make the same animation for a Ju-87 pilot who uses a stick, and a Ju-88 pilot who has a yoke.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Nice update.

[major_setback]

I think one of the nicest updates we have seen. There was a hard edge on some of the explosion/fire textures earlier. It has totally disappeared now. Well done dev' team!

Before:



After:




Also - it is nice to see the (subtle) reflections from the sky on the wings/airframe. It was slightly overdone previously, but now it looks perfectly natural. Really very good!!

The same goes for the reflections from below. The earlier screenshot of a group of Heinkels looks perfect to me...here:



And also it is nice to see that the light reflections from matt surfaces aren't as strong as before...and that panel lines etc. don't reflect light.

Everything has improved a lot in just a couple of weeks!!

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Romanator21

The pilots here seem to be to scale.

the pilots seen in some of the most recent WiP screenshots from Oleg are NOT to the correct scale ! this is very obvious by looking for ex at the 109 where he seems to be about 25% to small, previous posts by other observers have already explained why

Originally Posted by Romanator21

As for collision bugs: Oleg stated that this was regarding crew animations. You cannot make the same animation for a Ju-87 pilot who uses a stick, and a Ju-88 pilot who has a yoke.

thats a very confusing way to look at it.

instead maybe perceive it as "whatever the crew/pilot figure is doing in the sim, is physically represented by an animated articulated skeletal figure"

afaik the main problem right now is that with full sized pilots in very small confined spaces (like a 109 pit), the pilot "normal" movements are causing his limbs to poke out through the aircraft structure, and there is no limitation in his movements caused by colliding with the modeled aircraft skin. one short term interim solution for this is to shrink the figure down and hence give him more room to move in

edit: one oddity in all this "crew size" debate is that when viewed from inside an aircraft, the front most crew member in the brittish bomber we saw last week (inside cockpit view) showed his head almost touching the ceiling. so that crew member was roughly the correct size. maybe the "collision bug" is only present on outside views ? (oleg already confirmed the temporary use of smaller crew figures doesnt affect the 1e person views)

[Richie]

I wonder if we'll be able to give a wave in the cockpit like here..4:30 on the time slide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wpcHlDWHNU

[No601_Swallow]

Originally Posted by zapatista

the point about including the potential for very high detailed scenery (and drivable ground vehicles, controllable ships, etc..) is that if this is built in from the start of SoW-BoB then it makes the sim engine scalable for the future as hardware increases, and then you end up with BOTH aspects (the best of both worlds so to speak)......



i have repeatedly asked questions to Oleg and Co allong those lines over the years, but i dont think the idea has received much traction, and i am not sure oleg entirely got my point either.

My own understanding was that after ACES studio was erased from the face of this planet, Oleg did indeed see the potential in making a play for the MSFS niche - the overarching flightsim framework that might support a multitude of 3rd party addons and sceneries. I think the quote was "a vibrant 3rd party eco-system" or some such.

I see no reason why not, given the sophistication of what Oleg is trying to do and the beautiful CURVED Earth that we saw in the WIP pictures a couple of weeks ago. I was a little surprised noone seemed to comment on them from that perspective then. Indeed, I'd be quite certain that Oleg is building in a SOW equivalent of FSUIPC or simconnect.

My own dream would be for MSFS developers (or similar) to step in very quickly to perhaps offer a payware (or even better freeware!) fully functioning Biggin, say, or (my Squadron's heart Tangmere, with ground vehicles, textures, triggers, surrounding structures,etc, even for the original (Vanilla) BOB map, in much the same way as FSDT or Flytampa or Aerosoft publish airports and expansions for FSX/98. This is apart from offering new aircraft, new areas of the world, new eras...

(Personally, I'd love a set of early airliners, the DH Comet, the Caravel, the Constellation... These might appear in a SOW-engine-equipped addon, perhaps even able to use the same maps, perhaps not... Possibilities, possibililities...)