Daidalos Team's Room -QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS ONLY on IL2 Authorized Addons

[Furio]

Originally Posted by deadmeat313

I could be wrong here - in which case flame away.

I thought that a lot of pilots in WWII would only strap themselves across the lap if they were expecting action on the sortie? ie they left the shoulder straps of their harness undone. This was so they could sit forward more easily if they wanted to look out of the plane to the side or rear.

I think Paul Richey described doing that in his book "Fighter Pilot" about his experiences flying Hurricanes in 1940. Some modern photos of WWII birds show the pilot hunched forward in the cockpit. I'll try to find one if anyone thinks its important.

I'm not trying to argue that you should be able to stick you head out of the side window, but that 6DOF is quite reasonable within the cockpit.

S!

Anyone cab be wrong, me included.

I’m not a WWII pilot, but I always wear shoulder harness during take off, and I tighten them up before any aerobatic manoeuvre (or in turbulence, since the last time I bumped my head in the canopy).

Anyway, my main points are two.
First: 6DOF was asked for many times, with answers varying from a “Perhaps someday” to a polite “No”, because of the extensive modifications needed by many cockpits. I believe it’s time to ask for something useful but not so much labour intensive.
Second: I asked the “four positions head” as an option, not as a default solution for everyone. “Option” is a word that I like very much, as it leaves anyone freedom of choice.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

We are thinking about a different kind of 6DoF, which would be more realistic.
Still there are some problems with it.

However, we agree, that a pinpointed head without any ability to lean anywere, is quite unrealistic.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

We are thinking about a different kind of 6DoF, which would be more realistic.
Still there are some problems with it.

However, we agree, that a pinpointed head without any ability to lean anywere, is quite unrealistic.

Thank you for the great new, Caspar!
And thanks to all Team for the great work!

[steppie]

Originally Posted by Furio

Anyone cab be wrong, me included.

I’m not a WWII pilot, but I always wear shoulder harness during take off, and I tighten them up before any aerobatic manoeuvre (or in turbulence, since the last time I bumped my head in the canopy).

Anyway, my main points are two.
First: 6DOF was asked for many times, with answers varying from a “Perhaps someday” to a polite “No”, because of the extensive modifications needed by many cockpits. I believe it’s time to ask for something useful but not so much labour intensive.
Second: I asked the “four positions head” as an option, not as a default solution for everyone. “Option” is a word that I like very much, as it leaves anyone freedom of choice.

shoulder harness don't stop you from moving from side to side and you be surprise on how much you can move in these copit even when you strapped in.
You still able you lean forward to a point and lean side to and look around in the copit. The reason the wore silk scarfs to stop chafing because the had to look around so much and being able to see the enemy first was a life and death struggle for WW2 pilots . Also being able to move around help when it came to looking around copit frames that would get in the way.

here some inflight copit footage of a 109

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a_TE...layer_embedded

[Furio]

Originally Posted by steppie

shoulder harness don't stop you from moving from side to side and you be surprise on how much you can move in these copit even when you strapped in.
You still able you lean forward to a point and lean side to and look around in the copit. The reason the wore silk scarfs to stop chafing because the had to look around so much and being able to see the enemy first was a life and death struggle for WW2 pilots . Also being able to move around help when it came to looking around copit frames that would get in the way.

here some inflight copit footage of a 109

Steppie: tightened shoulder harness (if they’re not tight they serve nothing) limit any movement, period. If that’s not enough, looking at you very interesting movie, you can easily see that the 109’s cockpit is so narrow that cockpit sides block lateral body movement.
Consider also that operational pilots wore cumbersome flight gear, with heavy jacket, mae west, oxygen tubes and radio cables.

All this said, I believe that 6 DOF should be severely restricted to be realistic. But, in the interest of playability and different opinions, some allowance can be considered as an option. Have I already said that I like the word “option”?

[steppie]

Originally Posted by Furio

Steppie: tightened shoulder harness (if they’re not tight they serve nothing) limit any movement, period. If that’s not enough, looking at you very interesting movie, you can easily see that the 109’s cockpit is so narrow that cockpit sides block lateral body movement.
Consider also that operational pilots wore cumbersome flight gear, with heavy jacket, mae west, oxygen tubes and radio cables.

All this said, I believe that 6 DOF should be severely restricted to be realistic. But, in the interest of playability and different opinions, some allowance can be considered as an option. Have I already said that I like the word “option”?

Well look like you have never had a 6 point harness on and what the shoulder strap are for is to stop you move forward and up, the conforming seat that they don't you in 1944 are what stop you moving side way. As it was the harness don't work that well and that meant there was the needed to have cushioning for the gun site because the pilot would hit them with violent maneuvers and crash landing. Also pilot would often have bruised arms after dog fighters from being bang from side to side in the copit.

[MrBaato]

Hi, would a load-out option for the HurricaneMkIIb be possible so it
has 8 machine guns and no bomb racks?
Without bombracks its actually a MkIIA and it should have far better performance than the MkIIb

btw any chance of a Fokker G1? should make a nice ground attacker =P

[Furio]

Originally Posted by steppie

Well look like you have never had a 6 point harness on and what the shoulder strap are for is to stop you move forward and up, the conforming seat that they don't you in 1944 are what stop you moving side way. As it was the harness don't work that well and that meant there was the needed to have cushioning for the gun site because the pilot would hit them with violent maneuvers and crash landing. Also pilot would often have bruised arms after dog fighters from being bang from side to side in the copit.

It’s possible that you’re right and I’m wrong. Anyway I looked again your video, and I can’t see any sideways movement of pilot’s body and even of his shoulders. Looking at the cramped space available for left arm, it’s easy to understand why pilots reported bruises in combat. Here is the point. I’ve seen many photos of WWII pilots cruising along without shoulder harness, or with them loose. So, factoring in “loose harness”, a wide range of movement could be allowed. But then, during dogfight, the player-pilot that chooses “loose harness” should not be allowed violent manoeuvres and particularly negative g ones. Theoretically all is possible, but perhaps it’s better to look for a reasonable compromise.

My opinion is that pilot’s head should be allowed to move within a relatively small box. This should be also easier for available cockpits.

[Furio]

I always had a doubt about how planes land in Il2. My real life experience is limited to relatively slow landing speed planes, with lower wing loading than typical WWII fighters and bombers, even if the difference is not that much, as I’ve flown types that turn final at 60 knots (around 110 km/h) or more.

The difference I see is not in speed, but in glide path. Lowering the flaps in game reduces stalling speed, but doesn’t change the glide angle. In real life, it makes the glide angle appreciably steeper, particularly with flaps in landing position (maximum extension), where they produce a lot of drag without increasing much lift. In order to maintain airspeed, you must lower the nose way below horizon, which helps a lot in terms of visibility.

Anyone feels the same?

[ElAurens]

The pilot in black 6 did not move side to side once in that video. How could he? His shoulders were right up against the sides of the fuselage.

Any movement you see is due to vibration and or the action of g-loads on the pilot.

In many ways I agree that as currently implemented 6DOF is wildly optimistic in it's ability to let you roam around in the cockpit. Especially in the very small European aircraft. A 109 or a Spit has a tiny cockpit compared to a P47.