Here it is... the Teana Open!

[Lord Ludwig]

Originally Posted by TemjinGold

Only thing to be wary of is the fact that you can't control the units that the demon summons...

Well I guess it's in the spirit of this, let's call it "thought experiment", that every unit plays with perfect strategy rather than with so-so AI. Thus I don't think this really matters.

OK there have been no further arguments in favor of the repair droid and the vampire, so here is round 3 with the two retcons.

Black Dragon (1) 3
Assassin (32) 0

Ent (17) 3
Alchemist (16) 1

Ancient Ent (9) 3
Archmage (24) 0

Shaman (25) 0
Bone Dragon (8 ) 3


Giant (5) 0
Ancient Vampire (28 ) 3

Cannoneer (21) 0
Royal Thorn 3

Executioner (13) 3
Chosha (20) 1

Knight (29) 0
Green Dragon (4) 3



Red Dragon (3) 3
Polar Bear 0

Paladin (19) 0
Royal Griffin (14) 3

Ogre (11) 3
Demonologist (22) 0

Evil Beholder (27) 0
Archdemon (6) 3


Cyclops (7) 3
Horseman (26) 0

Necromancer (23) 0
Troll (10) 3

Demon (15) 3
Brontor (18 ) 2

Black Knight (31) 0
T-Rex (2) 3

I am quite uncertain about the demon vs brontor match. Originally I thought the repair droid was going to fight the brontor (and I was not very sure about the result of that match either). Now the demon has more health and does more damage, plus summon and hex. The brontor probably will do well to dig in and count on spikes. A close victory for the demon?

Two other matches are a bit uncertain. I think the executioner beats the chosha, who can breed gobots frequently, but in a number too shallow to turn the tide, at least so I think. As for the ent vs alchemist match I think the overall better stats of the ent and its poison resistance outweigh its vulnerability to the single fire attack of the alchemist.

So we have a result against the seeding, but the biggest surprise comes in a 3-0 form. Unless I overlooked something, higher speed, higher initiative and invulnerability to earthquake in bat form make the ancient vampire an impossible opponent to beat for the giant.

[TemjinGold]

Against the executioner, the chosha is actually better off NOT breeding gobots as the extra puny attacks simply serve to give the executioner more turns!

[Zechnophobe]

The Gobots are very high initiative, so should never trigger the Executioners ability. And in fact, the upgraded ones will cause poison damage, so I think it is completely worth it for the chosha to do it. Both units are immune to mind effecting spells so the fear from the Executioner will not help.

Actually that brings up a good question. Does the executioner win if the Chosha dies, but the gobots kill him? Because the executioner would be completely unable to kill gobots, especially in multiple stacks.

[Lord Ludwig]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

Actually that brings up a good question. Does the executioner win if the Chosha dies, but the gobots kill him? Because the executioner would be completely unable to kill gobots, especially in multiple stacks.

Very good point, it seems some deeper calculations are in order here. I asked myself what should happen in a situation like the one you describe, with only summoned units surviving, but thought it wasn't happening in any fight. Now if the situation was "real" we should have either both "teams" out, or the gobots advancing instead of the chosha, but I think in the spirit of the game the chosha would, so to say, be raised to live and fight another day (only one, because anyway there's a green dragon hanging above his future).

[TemjinGold]

I think the fairest way is to ask what happens when you win in the game with only summoned units left in your army. Does the game consider this a "win" for Amelie or are you summoned to King Frederick? I've never had this happen to me so I honestly don't know...

[MaroonMaurader]

I just checked using Mystic Egg - if all you have left are summoned units, you win, stay where you are, and the enemy army vanishes.

[Lord Ludwig]

Originally Posted by TemjinGold

I think the fairest way is to ask what happens when you win in the game with only summoned units left in your army. Does the game consider this a "win" for Amelie or are you summoned to King Frederick? I've never had this happen to me so I honestly don't know...

I don't think that matters much. We are not thinking in game terms here, like player A wielding unit x against player B wielding unit y, that would lead to too many further variables (spellbook, items, class and so no). If the tournament was a real "arena" with the survivor going on, then logic would lead to both dying and being eliminated. A bit like the fight between Thor and Jormungand in the Ragnarok of Snorri, where the thunder god kills the world serpent but seconds later is killed by its poisonous breath. For the fun of the tournament however I would prefer to think of the chosha being resurrected. I still think however - will try to do further calculations - that the executioner wins, so no need yet to go resurrecting.

I also made some further inquiry into the vampire-royal thorn issue and indeed once germination is properly calculated there seems to be no room for doubt. If they just stood next to each other from the start the vampire would do a damage going from a minimum of 4 to a maximum - on critical - of 12, thus it would take him anywhere from 30 to 90 rounds to kill the RT. The RT does at least 30 damage, so it needs at most 40 thorns to finish the job (and 70 could do it on there own without the RT having to risk anything) and he can get them in at most 3 germinations, thus at round 7. All that without considering that the vampire does not start next to the RT, and can't risk going bat to close distance, because two hits by the RT would certainly kill him in batform. It seems indeed settled... Now will things be different for the Ancient Vampire?

[Lord Ludwig]

Calculating the chosha-executioner match exactly is not easy, but I come to the conclusion it takes the executioner, on average, about 6 rounds to kill the chosha, while the chosha takes 10. The executioner does an average damage of about 31 considering A/D ratio, a crit of 50, can throw in murdering for 45-48 so 6 rounds is all it takes, with a critical it could be 5. The chosha can delay by calling in gobots, and the executioner has to kill them right away because they can outrun him. He will kill them in one blow, and the turn he doesn't strike the chosha the chosha doesn't hit him either, so it's just delaying. A question could be however if the gobots can move away in the same turn thy were summoned and thus keep distance killing the executioner slowly from a distance. Then we would have the "both contestants killed" scenario.

The above calculations do not consider counterstrike, which means they both go down even quicker. If the summoned gobots can indeed escape the chosha would do well to defend instead of attacking.

Does someone have evidence about the gobots managing to sneak away?