Title update update

[FOZ_1983]

Originally Posted by Panzergranate

So if one buys a new car and the gear box doesn't work in top gear then one shouldn't moan because all the other gears work fine??

Weird logic man.....

Generally folks do expect things to work 100% fine, as implied on the box, not 90% or 80% fine.

The problem with fixing the flight model errors on the consols is, I think, next to impossible, due to the attributes for each aircraft being taken from the DVD. On a PC the game is installed on a hard drive and an aircraft's individual attributes can be tampered with.

It is a shame that a few aircraft are un-useable because of this and is akin to buying a case of beer only to discover that a few bottles are stale.

Let's just enjoy the ones that are fine.

Ok then, to save messing around with individual stats, lets just make the P51 use the same stat as the spitfire XVI, granted its not accurate, but it will do! and will make it fun to fly.

not going to happen though mate, we'll just wait and see how it turns out.


patience is a virtue

[David603]

Originally Posted by FOZ_1983

Ok then, to save messing around with individual stats, lets just make the P51 use the same stat as the spitfire XVI, granted its not accurate, but it will do! and will make it fun to fly.

Same problem, I would think. You would need to alter the P51D's data to use the Spit's Flight Model, which would again mean altering what's on the disc.

However, other games get round problems like this, so I think there is a system where the console has a small internal hard drive used for patches and console updates, and the operating system is coded so that if one version of a file exists on the DVD and there is a different version of this file that has been downloaded as a patch, the console recognises the patch version and ignores the file on the DVD.

This would allow a new Flight Model for the P51 to be included in a patch, allong with new FMs for any other aircraft that needed changes.

[SEE]

I understand and accept that many will be very disappointed with the current gameplay flaws and everyone is aware of these by now. Others appreciate that the game is 'acceptable as is' and that there is nothing better available for consloles despite these flaws. The game was designed for a console market and incorporated the Arcade Level in which all the planes were easy to fly and suited the gamepad. Sales for this game have been less than desirable and in hindsight it would have been better to aim it for sim enthusiasts who are stuck with consoles and seem to have the most gripes with it. First, bitching about the flaws is important in order to put pressure on the release of a patch. Continuing to play the game despite these flaws is also important to flag up that we want this game and that it is worth the investment to release any future patches. Both camps have a valuable role to play so bitch all you like but play the game too.......................we are all winners that way.

[phlux]

Originally Posted by InfiniteStates

But my argument is - the game is still bloody good fun in spite of these problems.

I can say without question The M00ps is in agreement on this, I fly with him every week. The items on his list are things we discuss regularly, but at the same time we are talking about it while we are flying and having a blast.

Originally Posted by SEE

Both camps have a valuable role to play so bitch all you like but play the game too.......................we are all winners that way.

+1

What makes me laugh are the folks that have said on more than one occasion that they are selling their disk, console, car, house, dog, wife or whatever else and are never posting again yet they continue to come on here and rant and rave. I can't understand why people get enjoyment out of telling us we are wrong, or calling people brown nosers, butt kissers, derrier sniffers and other creative names for loving this game. If they are fed up with it fine, understandable, but leave those of us who still enjoy it to play and discuss it in peace.

[InfiniteStates]

Originally Posted by SEE

...Sales for this game have been less than desirable and in hindsight it would have been better to aim it for sim enthusiasts who are stuck with consoles and seem to have the most gripes with it.

Sales must have been good enough for 505 to commission a sequel. So they at least made a profit.

Originally Posted by SEE

First, bitching about the flaws is important in order to put pressure on the release of a patch. Continuing to play the game despite these flaws is also important to flag up that we want this game and that it is worth the investment to release any future patches. Both camps have a valuable role to play so bitch all you like but play the game too.......................we are all winners that way.

It's the people that moan like spoilt children they are throwing away their copy (be it trade-in or taking a drill to it like that video), and/or that claim they are never buying another 505/Gaijin product again that the community doesn't need.

They hurt both this game, when people with sense come to the forums to see if the game has serious problems that render it unplayable before they buy it, and the prospect of future such games. Hence the volatile dichotomy in the community.

[SEE]

PS peeps will have thier patch soon and be mighty interesting to see how their threads evolve once its released with the option to use PC joysticks. Glad to hear a sequel is planned. I like this game so much might just have to buy a PS3........and no MS gold membership required for MP either so lets bitch about MS for a change, can we have PC joysticks MS otherwise I'm switching, your loss not mine? (there you go....a MS Bitch and not one aimed at 505 or the Devs......makes a change)........

[kozzm0]

Originally Posted by FOZ_1983

Ok then, to save messing around with individual stats, lets just make the P51 use the same stat as the spitfire XVI, granted its not accurate, but it will do! and will make it fun to fly.

not going to happen though mate, we'll just wait and see how it turns out.


patience is a virtue

not accurate, to say the least. The p51 had nearly twice as much wing loading as the spit, and less power-to-weight ratio. Yet it seems like people expect it to be a dogfighter. That's not where p51 got its reputation.

I think there's 2 reasons why the p51 handles badly: 1st, all of its missions involve ground attack, so for simplicity it was made to react like it's carrying ordnance; 2nd, it wouldn't be a popular plane for online fights, even if it was corrected to leave out the ordnance. In dogfight and team battle, using a plane with a high corner speed generally equals fewer kills. Like bf109 which handles good but has to stay fast. And in airfield capture and strike, people would bring bombs and rockets, so the model would be accurate in that case, but p51 is still not popular in those modes.

That's not saying it's fair that other planes are so easy to fly with ordnance. But I don't see people flying around with a bomb under their spitfire much anyhow.

[MACADEMIC]

Thanks Anton for the update. Looking forward to see the changes.

[Deascendent]

Originally Posted by kozzm0

not accurate, to say the least. The p51 had nearly twice as much wing loading as the spit, and less power-to-weight ratio. Yet it seems like people expect it to be a dogfighter. That's not where p51 got its reputation.

I think there's 2 reasons why the p51 handles badly: 1st, all of its missions involve ground attack, so for simplicity it was made to react like it's carrying ordnance; 2nd, it wouldn't be a popular plane for online fights, even if it was corrected to leave out the ordnance. In dogfight and team battle, using a plane with a high corner speed generally equals fewer kills. Like bf109 which handles good but has to stay fast. And in airfield capture and strike, people would bring bombs and rockets, so the model would be accurate in that case, but p51 is still not popular in those modes.

That's not saying it's fair that other planes are so easy to fly with ordnance. But I don't see people flying around with a bomb under their spitfire much anyhow.

P-51 could do it all, nobody would want to use it online?? The majority of the people who bought this game are American and would love to use an American plane for a change... the Spitfire could slightly outmanuever a p-51 down low, but to say that the p-51 wasn't a dogfighter is the most ignorant statement I've read on here, look at the kills on record, look at it's specs, and read the accounts of ace p51 pilots, dumb American basher.

[SgtPappy]

The Mustang wasn't invincible like most people think, but it certainly was better than it is here.

Anyone notice how terribly slow the planes are in-game? Spitfire IX could hit 300 mph at sea level (military power) after just 30 seconds with the P-51D and B hitting 300 mph before 30 seconds of straight line acceleration!

Mike Williams, one holds some of the most reliable documents online. Working at the Canadian Air and Space Museum in Canada, I had access to the many archives of information they had.

Both sources suggest the Spitfire's performance it straight level speed is inconsistent in this game.

The P-51B/D could each hit about 350 mph at sea level on MILITARY power, WEP is another story. In this game I find that the P-51D has been degraded to just about 300 and that's with WEP after 40 seconds of acceleration.

Something's up and it needs to be fixed.