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#32
09-09-2009, 07:45 PM
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#33
09-09-2009, 08:05 PM
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On balance, I'll take the Allies, except the USSR, over the Axis, in the "Ethics" department. With the USSR employing Blocking Units, machine gunning their own soldiers, punishing whole families whose soldiers were unlucky enough to be captured in the many encirclement battles from 1941-44, uprooting whole enthic groups and transporting them thousands of miles away for poltical purposes, scortched earth policies that left hundreds of thousands of their own people freezing to death behind enemy lines, etc etc, I can hardly consider the Politburo as benevolent to their own people. Now, as for the Brave Russians, Ukrainians, Cossacks, Siberians, etc etc etc, my hats off to You. YOU were responsible for kicking the Germans out of your country, IN SPITE of Stalin and his Purges, his millitary blundering, his Terror. As for the other allies, the Brits and the Americans hands are dirty in this affair. Specifically, I refer to the Allied Strategic Bombing Offensive against Germany and Her Allies. Night bombing raids by the British, and Daylight "Precision" Bombing by the Americans were responsible, in retrospect, in countless hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. You could argue, convincingly, that a formation of Stukas are more 'humane' than a wing of B-17Gs in terms of effectiveness in taking out a target without incurring excessive non-combatants. You take 12 B-17Gs, each with 8 500lb gp bombs, for a total of 96. In a typical raid, flown at 20,000 feet, jinking through a flak corridor, you'd be lucky to get a couple of bombs directly on target. Where did the rest go? God forbid as Americans that we'd give it much thought. And, what did it buy us? Not much, as German weapon production soared through 1944-45. That, and a lot of German cities demolished. As for the Stukas, their individual bomb placement, against tactical targets, of course, could be measured within 50 yards of the target, and frequently MUCH less. Direct Hits were common amongst their highly trained formations. If bombing accuracy is a measure of 'humaneness' in War, you could certainly argue that the Dive Bomber is far more accurate and far more humane. Assuming, of course, they are used against strictly military targets. Put it this way. It took Nazi Germany, what, 6 weeks to overrun France in a Blitzkrieg? 8 months to overrun all of Europe? It took the Allies 5 Years to take it all back. It's crazy, I know, arguing about Stukas as a "humane" weapon. It doesn't jibe with all that footage on The History Channel. I only use it to illustrate the fact that, in War, NO party has white gloves. But, there are lots of shades of grey.... Make the German Aircraft available to ALL players. It's the Right Thing To Do. LJB 
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#34
09-09-2009, 09:16 PM
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1- About the points such as 'being able to play German/ Japanese in COD'. Those were in multiplayer, which is just the same as flying German planes in BoP multiplayer. The point people should be making is that they didn't have campaigns in COD for the Germans or Japanese.
2- I'm not going into any politics or ethics discussion here, but they could have put in a German campaign for BoP, but they didn't. It doesn't matter for what reason, but they didn't, so everyone stop whining about it. It could be in later DLC, it could not. It's a fine game as it is.
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#35
09-09-2009, 09:25 PM
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I just want to say, that in war. It doesn't matter what side your on. American, German, Russian, Japanese, Italian etc. It just doesn't matter. All sides get their hands dirty one way or another. So saying that flying a German plane is unethical is complete bullshit. I don't agree or like what Hitler did, but if we're going to start saying we shouldn't fly them because Germany in WW2 was unethical, then we shouldn't be allowed to fly American planes. All around the US, Japanese-Americans were rounded up and put in "concentration camps" out here in the west. The Italians killed thousands of Ethiopian's and Japan, we already know what they did to the Chinese and Koreans etc.
So flying German, Italian and American planes, I think should be banned from the game if some of us are going to say what's ethical to fly and what's not. We shouldn't even have this game then since flying German, American, Italian, and British planes would be unethical. That's all I want, and am going to say on the matter.
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#36
09-09-2009, 09:56 PM
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Thank God the RAF's flat back 4 kept the German wingers quiet in the Summer of 1940...  ________ Marijuana Vaporizer Last edited by juz1; 02-24-2011 at 08:30 AM.
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#37
09-09-2009, 10:16 PM
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Who's whining? Anton, for purely political reasons, opted to not make German aircraft available to fly. I, as a consumer, am addressing his political reasons with a political argument. And, judging by a lot of the posts/responses here, on this thread, it seems to be a damn convincing one. His argument/reasoning for excluding German Aircraft from his customers isn't even one of 'moral relativity.' He says the Allies were "100% Ethical." Stalin, Beria, Khruschev, Malenkov, Mikoyan, Molotov, Kaganovitch, Yehzov, Blohkin, etc..."100% ethical." Sure, they were. Those guys signed the death warrants for millions of their own countrymen, and hundreds of thousands of eastern block citizens, for the "Good of the Party." You can't make a case for change without first advancing a convincing argument. Make the German Aircraft available for All. Political reasoning aside, they were damn fine aircraft. LJB
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#38
09-10-2009, 12:33 PM
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Hi,
we all know that the political argument is .. well, rubbish. German soldiers were in the least of cases politcal soldiers. They were sons, fathers, brothers and husbands. Not better oder worse than any russian, american or british soldier. They breathed, lived, loved, feared and longed to get home alive. Regards, Rob
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#39
09-10-2009, 01:25 PM
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For the love of God lock this thread.
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#40
09-10-2009, 02:52 PM
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Lets not forget the U.S. is also the only nation to ever drop an atomic bomb in combat...twice! Two cities full of innocents were vaporized in the blink of an eye, not to mention the survivors' hell. The truth is, morality and war don't mix. Any attempt to bring a moral resolution, imperative, or doctrine to war is a ruse. "All warfare is based upon deception" When shot at...people have a tendancy to shoot back. And it's always personal.
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