Suggestions for AI Improvements in Future Updates

[ben_wh]

It seems that a recent AI discussion thread took a less than ideal turn, however I believe that the AI improvement is a worthwhile subject to be explored further due to impact on offline gameplay.

I understand that it is difficult to code AI player to be both realistic (like real human) and fair, but since DT started on the AI improvement path I think there may be the willingness to make incremental refinement in this area.

IMHO, these are at least two areas that may warrant further further investigation by the team if AI improvement is planned for 4.13 and beyond:

(below are personal observation only and would like others' input)

1) AI gunnery of rookie and regular pilots - from both personal experience in game and reading others' posts, lower level AI player (rookie and regular) still seems to make too good a shot (high speed, difficult angle) at times.

2) AI wingman warning - it is great to see that enemy AI act more as a team, and enemy AI wingman will come to rescue to its leader if the leader is targeted by the human player. Given this AI behavioral improvement, it would be very beneficial for the human player to receive some warning from the wingman, if the human player is being targeted. For example, the wingman can proactively issue a warning if enemy is within a short distance around (especially behind) the player, provided that the wingman is within range of course. Although this may get excessive in a crowded fur-ball environment. Another option is , similar to the implementation in another sim (Battle of Britain 2 Wings of Victory), have a command that enable the player to query his team whether the player's six is clear. (For example, 'Check my six!') The wingman can then respond 'Clear!' or 'Bandit at seven o'clock!' (for example) accordingly, again if the wingman is within range.

Not sure if either of these is feasible but I hope these suggestions at least stimulate some thoughts. Would love to hear what DT and other players think.

Cheers,

[IceFire]

Some good suggestions Ben!

I had added in that other thread that some AI flown aircraft still have VERY high roll rates that simply aren't possible at the speeds the AI are performing them at. Something is obviously simplified for them. Oddly it doesn't affect all aircraft... the Ki-61 will roll VERY quickly in the hands of the AI while any Bf109 rolls much more slowly.

[ben_wh]

Thanks, IceFire.

I think the 'AI roll' has been around since the earlier days of IL-2. I was glad to see that removed when I was flying some of the mod packs but it is very noticeable back in 4.12 now.

I do not have any documented proof of whether this - and the very high-G maneuvers pulled by some of the AI crafts - are realistic or not. But it does make for some eyebrow-raising moments when one sees an AI plane rolling endlessly while diving or pulling up vertically and very sharply all of a sudden during a dogfight.

Cheers,

[IceFire]

Yeah, definitely not a new problem at all. I'm hopeful there are ways to mitigate it in the AI programming without it being a huge task.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by ben_wh

1) AI gunnery of rookie and regular pilots - from both personal experience in game and reading others' posts, lower level AI player (rookie and regular) still seems to make too good a shot (high speed, difficult angle) at times.

For a while I thought that too -I felt I got hit and shot down by rookies/regular at ridiculous distances too often - but then it didn't happen that often any more, so I think that was just bad luck. Part of that is also because aces AI does usually not shoot at great distances (700m+) like rookies do. And have you ever watched rookie/average AI shoot at a nearly non evading target? - You just want to facepalm continously.
The only thing that I think rookies are too good at is torpedo bombing - while average/veteran AI usually only gets 2 out of 4 torps on a large moving ship (battleship, carrier) rookies most of the time get 3 on target.

Originally Posted by ben_wh

2) AI wingman warning - it is great to see that enemy AI act more as a team, and enemy AI wingman will come to rescue to its leader if the leader is targeted by the human player. Given this AI behavioral improvement, it would be very beneficial for the human player to receive some warning from the wingman, if the human player is being targeted. For example, the wingman can proactively issue a warning if enemy is within a short distance around (especially behind) the player, provided that the wingman is within range of course. Although this may get excessive in a crowded fur-ball environment. Another option is , similar to the implementation in another sim (Battle of Britain 2 Wings of Victory), have a command that enable the player to query his team whether the player's six is clear. (For example, 'Check my six!') The wingman can then respond 'Clear!' or 'Bandit at seven o'clock!' (for example) accordingly, again if the wingman is within range.

+1
I had this happen maybe 3 times in 20 missions, that my wingman actually told me there were bandits near me, and one time he told me they were at 12o'clock -duh, really....
But I think either my perception of my wingmen is different or they have changed, they often stay with you in a fight and if told at the right moment actually cover you on command - and even reform on your wing when told so (most times). Not everything is fine, sometimes thy still wander off aimlessly. And when your mission is to escort something, you can just forget about the AI -they either try to fulfil their escort mission, if you command them anything, or they follow you if told to do so, but will not engage, even if attacked.

[ben_wh]

For the AI warning, the idea is to have the communication with AI more meaningful and useful in making tactical decision. So having the AI wingman to warn you of immediate danger, even if passively on your request, is along that direction.

Other aspects I'd like to suggest (_if_ DT plans to tweak the AI more in the future) are:

1) More self-preservation instinct among AI planes - on when to break off an attack/bomb run, when to jettison bombs, break formation and head for home when its formation is decimated

2) More variations in behavior among AIs - some are more disciplined and press home the attack no matter what, some break formation easily when attacked.

The following is not a request but reminiscing of earlier flight sim experience ...

If I recall correctly, in Rowan's MiG Alley, not only are there training and behavioral differences among AI pilots in Russian, Chinese and North Korean MiG squadrons, but recent successes or defeats in the dynamic campaign also affected AI behavior. For example, AI squadrons that had been successful in recent missions exhibited more aggressive behavior, while those that suffered attrition sometimes hanged back or disengaged more readily. In some missions you would see some brightly painted MiGs from an expert squadron and you knew you'd be in for a tough fight. In such case the AI behavior was very successful in raising the immersion factor in that you, the human player, suspended your disbelief and almost attributed human quality to your computer-controlled opponents.

Cheers,

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by ben_wh

If I recall correctly, in Rowan's MiG Alley, not only are there training and behavioral differences among AI pilots in Russian, Chinese and North Korean MiG squadrons, but recent successes or defeats in the dynamic campaign also affected AI behavior. For example, AI squadrons that had been successful in recent missions exhibited more aggressive behavior, while those that suffered attrition sometimes hanged back or disengaged more readily. In some missions you would see some brightly painted MiGs from an expert squadron and you knew you'd be in for a tough fight. In such case the AI behavior was very successful in raising the immersion factor in that you, the human player, suspended your disbelief and almost attributed human quality to your computer-controlled opponents.

Yeah, a dynamic AI would be great, but it's only possible in campaign games which the Il-2 engine is not designed for (campaigns are generated as a series of static missions by 3rd party applications like DGEN and DCG). IF the AI were composed of various openly accessible skills (as major_kudo suggested on the pattern of CLoD, and many others opposed with reasonable arguments), THEN it would also be possible to dynamically affect AI behaviour via 3rd party campaign generators. I mean we could create "brave" AI squads without corresponding good shooting skills, and the like. Just brainstorming, don't shoot me.

[major.kudo]

These are the pictures which I drew before.

First, I think this is just a problem.
http://gachopin.no-ip.info/kudo/Fighter_2.jpg
I think the cause of this problem is a thing by too exact shooting.
I want to play more historical air combat.

I thought that it would be solvable by this.
http://gachopin.no-ip.info/kudo/AI_Level.jpg
However, this may change greatly the victory or defeat of a battle for dynamic campaign etc.
I think that the result which the maker of campaign does not mean may be brought about.

Then, I thought that it was a thing that what is necessary is just this.
http://gachopin.no-ip.info/kudo/AI_skill_edit.jpg
It seems that however, it is not so reputable now.
:
:
:
So, I added change.
http://gachopin.no-ip.info/kudo/AI_skill_edit2.jpg
Everyone, what do you think?

-

I point out another one.
http://gachopin.no-ip.info/kudo/Unreal_gunshooting.jpg
At least, I think that impossible to the pilot of rookie and average.

Sorry, my poor English.

[ben_wh]

To sniperton,

I understand the limitation of the IL-2 engine and the MiG Alley reference was not a request but more of a reminiscence of past flight sim experience.

Who knows, may be useful as creative brainstorming when DT is thinking about AI update for 5.00?

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by ben_wh

I understand the limitation of the IL-2 engine and the MiG Alley reference was not a request but more of a reminiscence of past flight sim experience.

It was clear to me, but I liked the idea, and upon some conditions it could be even feasible IMO. Campaign generators do improve the skills of the AI over time, but they do it according to how AI skill can be set in the game -- in a 'monolithic' way (rookie>average>veteran>ace), where one particular skill (say, shooting accuracy) develops hand in hand with others (say, agressiveness). I'm pretty sure that an 'average' Japanese pilot in RL had a different 'skills composition' than his American adversary, even if they both were on the same 'average' level in general. What I suggest is not a full breakdown of all particular skills via sliders (like in CloD), but to allow different 'attitudes' within the same skill level. Just think of the difference in habits between Manfred and Lothar von Richthofen.