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Old 04-20-2013, 07:20 PM
Bearcat Bearcat is offline
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Default Another question for TD..

TD can you tell me why it is .. that I can be chasing a bandit .. in a dive.. and he is pulling away from me which obviously means he is going faster than I am .. and he can jink and juke.. and not only that he can pull up out of his dive and do very high.. very tight yo yo and come down and nail me with a short burst ... because I pulled up even shallower than he did and yet I STILL blacked out.... and he obviously didn't pulling an even tighter climb while pulling away from me..? How is this possible. Mind you .. I took a shallower climb because I started greying out following his every move and I knew that if I continued I would black out so I backed off... yet he just pops up .. rolls over.. BANG!! I'm dead..

One would think that at the very least his aim would be off a bit because he was partly blacked out if not outright blacked out and not be able to shoot me... right? That's what happens when I am on the fleeing end ... I black out .. come oo.. Where is he.. it takes me a few seconds to reacquire.. and some times that comes from the tracers over my shoulder or across my nose..

This is more a question than an outright gripe .. because I am trying to understand what is happening and what I can do to prevent it.. I see some of the improvements in the AI.. They do panic and stall they do fly into the ground .. apparently from blacking out.. but it just seems that the two thresholds for blacking out are not in synch.. I would think that if I was starting to black out then the bandit I am chasing who is pulling away going faster and turning tighter should be doing the same thing... maybe even sooner.. Why is that not the case?

Last edited by Bearcat; 04-20-2013 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:13 PM
gaunt1 gaunt1 is offline
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Also experienced this, last time I chased a 190 in a Yak-9, with same results as you described. Also happened with A6M vs Wildcat.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:37 PM
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Treetop64 Treetop64 is offline
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Originally Posted by gaunt1 View Post

Also experienced this, last time I chased a 190 in a Yak-9, with same results as you described. Also happened with A6M vs Wildcat.
Arguably, in most cases the FW190 will win in a dive vs. just about anything else, especially against Russian planes, particularly the Yak. Same for a diving F4F vs. A6M.

But I have to agree with BC, as I've sometimes witnessed the same things in early Eastern Front campaigns, and though the Bf109F2 far outdives everything else in the early missions, the I-16 or I-153 I'm chasing can often pull very sharply out of the dive, whereas I have to just keep going on my way in the 109 because I either quickly black out or break the airplane if I try to stay behind the other guy.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:19 PM
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Aviar Aviar is offline
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Agreed. The AI does not have the same threshold for blackouts when compared to humans. This is very obvious if you play IL-2 for any reasonable amount of time.

I'm still hoping that one day TD can resolve this issue.

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Last edited by Aviar; 04-20-2013 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:48 PM
The_WOZ The_WOZ is offline
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No, this happens also online Aviar.
I witness this specially against US planes.
You're both diving, the plane in front pulls a tight turn, you try to follow, drop throttle and follow a less tighter turn, but still blackout. By the time you're out of it the enemy is in your six and you have lost so much energy you're dead.
But when roles reverse this can be used against them, jerking the stick a little will make them try to follow without reducing speed, and if they're on a spit or p-51 they'll loose a wing.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:42 AM
IceFire IceFire is offline
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I think there are two things at play:

1) The AI may not have the same blackout hindrance as a human pilot. I'm not sure if they do or not... but it does seem like they can do so much more than a human at high speed ... SOMETIMES. Other times they aren't any more effective. But it does tend to be a problem... sometimes they can do some pretty amazing things.

2) Peoples perceptions are often wrong. Dead wrong. They think they pulled the same turn angle as the aircraft they are in pursuit of but most people get a little anxious and try and end up pulling tighter to try and get a possible lead shot on the target. I've done it, I've seen lots of people do it, it happens more often than you think. If you record a track and watch extremely closely from both perspectives it starts to show.

Number 1 is more of an issue offline. Number 2 is more of an issue online but still remains in play for offline as well.
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:51 PM
Lagarto Lagarto is offline
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There is no such thing as blackout hindrance for AI in this sim. Most regrettably.
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:56 AM
horseback horseback is offline
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My first thought is that the AI cheat. Shamelessly.

My second thought is that they are always perfectly and instantaneously trimmed in a way that no human player can possibly duplicate. They do not appear to be subject to rough air and turbulence the way that the player is, and as we all know, they still retain a degree of what I like to call the anal eyeball (because they can all see out their @sses). If they retained lawyers, we'd all be subject to sexual harassment suits because they can feel it the moment your gunsight's crosshairs come close to their tail sections despite having their backs turned to us.

My third is that dive acceleration doesn't seem to be affected by factors like weight/kinetic energy and drag, that the only factor appears to be terminal speed, where at some point the 'slower diving' aircraft simply cannot go any faster without breaking up, and if you have sufficient altitude, your 'faster diving' aircraft will start to catch up, but you will have to be very careful not to exceed your 'breakup point' AND you will have to be trimmed just so AND you will still see the little bastage pull out just as you come within firing range anyway.

You're better off telling your wingman to go get him; that way, once he's on the wingman's tail, you'll have a better shot at him.


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Old 05-07-2013, 11:18 AM
iLOVEwindmills iLOVEwindmills is offline
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I don't think he's talking about AI.

Everybody experiences this online, and it's hard to pin down. Don't know if it's a bug or just something weird with the fatigue system but yeah.

It would be nice if somebody could take a look at the relevant code.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:31 PM
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Furio Furio is offline
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My feeling is: if you follow visually a bandit, keeping it in the same point of your windscreen, you’re not following exactly the same path, but a tighter one.

Probably the right thing to do is to let it slide up, reversing the ratio of a deflection shooting. Easier said than done, but it’s worth trying.
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