class difference!

[Razorflame]

Hey dear 1c,

I was wondering wow the classes differ much more than the previous KB games


From TL to CW the warrior always had the most leadership
paladin was semi decent in leadership and potentional a good scroll of resu or the like and was a good undead/deamon slayer

mage was low leadership but ability to cast spells twice in a turn


Now in WOTN things CHANGED alot

the warrior no longer hold the throne of getting alot of leadership
that has been down to semi decent(previously the paladin)

leaving the warrior with barely any spells chances(on first island at least) a very tough start because the rage ability simply doesn't deal enough damage nor does it level up with hero. Furthermore the units really don't get that much stronger than the paladins/skald


As for the skald/paladin

He now hold the throne of having the most leadership and with a FIXED healing spells(which was previously a scroll of some kind) and on top of that he also gets very quick acces to the song of edda making him a big monster

leaving the mage and warrior FAR behind him
it's like a triple buff for the paladin/skald
in leadership wise/ spellwise and just a random buff from scrolls

A warrior has no chance of even competing in the start vs this hero

A mage could potentionaly get stronger in the start but due to leadership wise he would still have a very hard time


As for the mage

he still is pretty weak in leadership and the magic abilities and intellect factor is also a bit harder for him but ok the mage is the only class that has become pretty much the same from all the classes avaible


But what i really wonder is, let us the HAMquestion


What was the reason to CHANCE the leadership factor from the warrior to the skald?
and already giving the skald a spell that is fixed(without even having invested into order magic)


this really baffled me a bit not sure what other gamers think about this.
But it seems a bit odd maybe cause the paladin wasn;'t very favorite in the first 2 chapters

it's also a bit dissapointing that the paladin/skald no longer has any bonusses against demon/undead

so please leave a not here as to why plz

[Nevar]

Well, the Mind/Spirit class needed a buff, imo.

In previous games, Paladins sucked because they were basically trying to be a Red Mage. You know, Jack of all trades, master of none and all that. It kinda sucked compared to the other two, since it's only real trick was solo stack armageddon.

The reason it's not slaughtering undead/demons now (well, not without an Edda) is because a Skald isn't a paladin at all. He's a BARD.

[Razorflame]

i don't think so that the mind/spirit needed a buff

they had some fixed spells at start
and they had ability to resu troop back if it died(nothing for a no loss ofc)
but still it was a good class

and there is nothing with a jack of trades he could get skills easier than the other 2 classes(he got best divided runes IMHO)

so the paladin could go either way

and even if mind/spirit needed a buff
why the hell he gets 3 buffs?

1. being edda
2. being more ldrship
3. fixed healing spell without ordermagic

[dudex]

the hero with the most leadership is usually the best given they are about leveled without it.. personally i think all the heroes should have the same leadership gains.

tho the amount of undead at the start gives skald's a huge advantage because that undead song is pretty damn powerful.

[Nevar]

He needed it.

Why?

Previously:

Paladin vs. Warrior
-Warrior had better Rage, bigger army, probably better stats, two weapon slots.
- Paladin had more mana, extra damage to undead/demons, maybe better morale

But:
What kind of spells would you cast if you're not a mage? Answer: Buffs/debuffs. Do these cost a lot? Pygmy is 15 mana at level 3, iirc, and that had to be the best spell you could use without Intellect. You would almost never cast geyser as a Paladin, for example.

Paladin vs. Mage
- Mage has higher intellect, double casting, smaller army, more mana, better spells.
- Paladin had a bigger army, MAYBE better Rage (you don't have enough Might runes to take every Might talent), plus morale and that bonus versus demons/undead.

This one's no contest, really. Even if the mage has a smaller army, a few damage spells would quickly bridge the gap, and then there's the summons. Who needs a big army when you have two units with 3k+ health and better stats than a black dragon?

Yeah. The mind/spirit class did need a buff.

Also, I don't understand what you're saying about "fixed healing spell without order magic."

I'm not sure giving it Edda (which has questionable value, honestly) and increased leadership was the way to go, but it did need a buff.

[Razorflame]

eh dafuq?

your comparison is weird

the only advantage a warrior had on paladin was it's higher leadership

the paladin on the other hand could get quicker order/distortion magic cause he gets those mind runes faster
and stoneskin or healing does alot in a battle and those are cheap buffs

just 2 minor examples

and i already said mage was pretty much the same through all series

as for the skald

go start him and look in his spellbook
he has a healing spell (in previous series it would have been a scroll instead of spell)

edda is ok
just give the higher leadership to warrior which he needs badly
and remove the healing spell and make it a scroll instead

edda alone is enough to reap havoc on the first island

[Nevar]

Originally Posted by Razorflame

(1)the only advantage a warrior had on paladin was it's higher leadership

(2)the paladin on the other hand could get quicker order/distortion magic cause he gets those mind runes faster
and (3) stoneskin or healing does alot in a battle and those are cheap buffs

just 2 minor examples

and i already said mage was pretty much the same through all series

as for the skald

(4) go start him and look in his spellbook
he has a healing spell (in previous series it would have been a scroll instead of spell)

edda is ok
just give the higher leadership to warrior which he needs badly
and remove the healing spell and make it a scroll instead

(5) edda alone is enough to reap havoc on the first island

1.) No. Warrior also got more rage and had more might runes to be used in the might tree.
2.) Earlier, yes, but late game, Warrior could get some Order/Distortion, too.
3.) Exactly, and those spells cost less than 10 mana, which means the Warrior can use them just as much as Paladin, which means the Paladin doesn't have an advantage over the warrior with these spells at all.
4.) I'm almost sure Paladin Amelie had Healing in her spellbook at the start, too. This isn't a new buff.
5.) True, but if you only use song of Helheim, then that pretty much means you're just making up for the fact that "Holy Anger" isn't in this game. The other songs are mediocre, imo. Basically, it's like he got the Paladin's old anti-demon thing, but it only works for 6 rounds instead of the whole battle.

[Fatt_Shade]

Skald/Paladin needed buff comparing to last 2 games tL and AP/CW. There Warrior had best rage skills and most attack/crit% and initiative for archers and hit enemy for 30k+ critical , Mage with x2 spell cast and 70+ intellect builds could dish out geyser/fire rain/death star/black hole ridiculous dmg in every turn. And Paladin had basically nothing medium army, medium intellect, and some bonus to undead/demon which were limiting considering if you have 60 attack more then enemy defense dmg is max there is no need to lower his defense further so it`s also medium bonus in some way.
Now roles have changed Warrior still have most amount of rage and highest attack/crit% due to most might runes , Mage stayed same as before with mana/intellect/x2 spell, and Paladin got some lds bonuses and changed Holy anger to Edda to pester enemy undead/demons.

[namad]

paladins were always awful...


the fixed healing ability is a) his ultimate final ability and b) useless in a no-loss run... that's right the skald's ultimate ability does LITERALLY NOTHING AT ALL in a no loss run! in fact... his ability is only really at all useful if you get OBLITERATE! which if you're doing that a lot... well it's not good!


edda? at level 2 when I first got edda it was absolutely useless, the drawbacks often outweighed the bonuses, now maybe at level 40 or something edda will rock? who knows? I don't know exactly how it scales... I'd say the paladin got ONE BUFF, the one BUFF HE ABSOLUTELY NEEDED! he has the highest leadership now, but his abilities are still the WORST ABILITIES...


you can't possibly sit there with a straight face and tell me that the spirit tree isn't still the worst tree of the three, at least now they're admitting the spirit tree is the worst, and so it's balanced by having the best leadership, seems fair to me! edda and rez after battle ultimate? don't hold a candle to alchemy+high magic! now the might tree might seem a bit weak, but... in this game... the rage system has been... UPGRADED! you have 3-5 separate rage rest cooldown timers that work simultanously now as well as improved rage bonus skills, even if the non-rage related might skills are a bit lax...


it seems like they're really focused the three classes well this time around between rage/magic/and weird gimmicks but at least your leadership rocks?

whereas before it was might/redmage/magic which was just a less well defined split... I never found rage abilities in the might tree all that key in the first 2.5 games in the series... heck... in crossworlds my mage had some fairly good rage abilities that didn't feel like I needed the might tree!!!!


using awaken dragon PLUS another spell every turn? (thanks to high magic?) makes up for a lot of the missing rage abilities from the might tree in older games? I wonder is awaken dragon even still in wotn? it seemed a bit op...



although really big question is.... can you still use guard droids+repair droids+SACRIFICE to reproduce infinitely many troops in your army? mid-battle, nearly endlessly, not only allowing you to rez, but to grow entire stacks of troops you didn't have enough of to begin with? that was CRAZY OP is that still in?

[Loopy]

Have you seen the Viking unique skill Absolute Rage? Holy crap that thing looks powerful. 50% chance for +25% attack bonus every hit, 2x critical chance on counter attacks, +50% crit damage? This is like a potential 3x your maximum damage range on every counter attack, and +50% crit damage alone will be great for any kind of ranged attack build. I mean Higher Magic is pretty damn awesome, but this comes close.

Soothsayers get Creation. I can't overstate how powerful this is. In AP we had Magic light (+% to healing, pretty bad overall) and summoner (+% to summoning, VERY nice). Now Creation does both, along with all other non-combat spells, AND gives increased duration. As far as I can tell so far it works on _everything_ non-combat, including spells and parts of spells that don't normally get boosts from intellect. Stone Skin at +52%? Hell yes. Blind for 4 turns? Yum. Even on those skills where intellect worked before it's still the equivalent of +40 intellect as far as making spells last longer, which is insane.

What does Skald have? A resurrect that works randomly, which you shouldn't need most of the time, and which can be done on your own? Not really worth my time IMO. Edda is just kind of meh for everything except undead, where it provides mana (that you don't really need at the beginning of battle) and rage (which warrior already has more of and uses better).

I think it's very well balanced now. Skald skills just aren't that great. Outside of your started skills all you really have to look forward to in your tree is some +crit and +morale. Skald was simply by far the weakest class in TL and still much weaker in AP. They needed these buffs. With the sadly constrained first island Skald may have an advantage in no-lossing, but outside of that I think the other classes have a much more exponential power climb.