Answers to Community Questions

[luthier]

Good afternoon everyone. Sorry it took so long to get to your questions. Finally got some spare time on a quiet weekend. Went through a bunch of them, still have a lot left. Hopefully will get to them tomorrow.

I also answered a bunch of Russian-language questions on sukhoi.ru. Sorry, no energy to translate them into English. Hopefully someone might help me out and provide a translation for me.
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthrea...72#post1902572

Here are the answers to your questions.

The single player experience in Cliffs of Dover has been roundly criticized as being decidedly below standard. Can you tell us specifically in what ways you think it is lacking, and explain what you intend to do to improve it?

First of all, I disagree with it being “below standard”. Your definition of single-player standard is probably different from mine. If you expect Mass Effect or Skyrim, you’re barking up the wrong tree.
Cliffs of Dover was intended to be a sandbox game more than anything, expansive, open, giving complete freedom to the players. If you’ll remember, the original Il-2 owed much of its success to user-made content. We aimed for the same with Cliffs of Dover. Instead of building complex single-player content in-house, we gave the tools to the community. Cliffs of Dover has a much better mission builder with scripting support, supports complex moddable briefings and debriefings, and so on.
Unfortunately 3rd party support never materialized the way we hoped it would, and we ourselves cannot at this point go back and redo single player.
Still, I strongly disagree with your criticism of the single-player. The two campaigns, quick mission builder, and the full mission builder offer a lot in terms of single-player. Standard? I’ve played plenty of AAA games where the entire single-player content is under 20 hours with 0 replay value, and I didn’t even feel like finishing the entire thing. At the same time I’ve logged way more than 20 hours in quick mission builder alone. What does that say about industry standards?

1. Please could you look into the netcode, its killing Multiplayer servers.

Latest patch should take us closer.

2. Could you reconsider your position on Co-ops, again this is preventing a lot of people from wanting to continue using your product now and in the future.

Redoing co-op is a huge task. We are a business. We have to make a profit somewhere somehow. We cannot keep pumping resources and releasing free patches for Cliffs of Dover forever.
And regarding not using our products in the future if we do not redo co-op now. I believe the majority in this community actually will. If we offer a much more comprehensive co-op experience in a future product, and especially if such an experience still allows you a trip back in time to fly some Spits and 109s over the Channel, well, I really hope that most people will want to get the sequel.
To reiterate - I've never said that we'll never address co-op, I've only said we cannot do it within the Cliffs of Dover project.

3. It was claimed that within recent patches a 50% performance increase was gained but as of yet I have seen no evidence to support this, in fact my performance actually dropped whilst at the same time features were taken out of the game. Could you tell me how I go about getting this performance increase or what system I should use to get the best out of CLOD, I currently have a i72600k running at 4.7Ghz, 2x GTX680 in SLI and 16GB of DDR3 at 1600mhz.

There are plenty of people on the forums reporting a significant performance boost.
You should be getting excellent FPS in the game with your top of the line system.

4. Could you tell us how you test your alpha/beta patches before release, many of them have broken has much as they have fixed and your customers are left scratching their heads wondering how you could of missed some of the most obvious bugs, such as the hurricane not starting. Also could you tell me what online servers you or your employees use to test the game.

Ooh somebody’s real grouchy.

Can the sequel be merged with COD like the original il2 series and if it can will we get to test features that will be appearing in the sequel I.e. Weather etc.
This question Ilya! Please confirm that the sequel will be able to be merged with our current game as in all previous IL2 releases.

Definitely not planning to release any sequel features as add-ons for Cliffs of Dover, sorry.

Also, please, please introduce a coop mode similar to the one we had in IL2 as you are loosing potential sales without this!

As I said earlier, this just doesn’t make sense financially. Redoing co-op in the way that the community wants cannot possibly be profitable within Cliffs of Dover. At this point there’s just no way that any given feature can lead to any kind of profits.

How many people are there working on IL-2 Sturmovik series now?

Slightly over 50.

Why were the Flyable G50 and Br20 modelled for CoD, when they only played a very minimal role, and more common aircraft left out, such as a flyable Do17 and indeed even the CR42?

Was it originally intended to move to the Med theatre after the BoB?[/quote]

I was not a part of the decision making process about any flyable aircraft in Cliffs of Dover so I cannot answer this question.

Have you addressed the bugged Mixture issues in the RAF types?
Have you addressed the Engine Overheat issues in the RAF types?
Have you addressed the issue of the Spitfire under performing in terms of relative top speed compared with the 109 (e.g. see graphs in 1st post in this recent thread http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=34115)? Thank you.

We keep working on aircraft performance, and hopefully the most recent patch showed some improvement in that respect.

Would it be possible to hand out information on how to handle each aircraft the proper way?
after 1,5 years, there is still too much confusion about the different types of planes, and how they perform the best way,and how to get the most out of them.
For example every month there is another thread about the prop pitch management of the 109, and even among the experienced 109pilots there doesnt seem to be a consensus on whats the best way...
for example: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=34328
there is historical information around in the net and in books, but we dont know whats implemented in game, what works best, and how it is intended to work...

Our goal has always been that the actual aircraft flight manuals should be used with Cliffs of Dover. If that’s not the case, the only people that know the guts well enough to write a flight manual are our aircraft programmers – and in that very case their efforts are better spent bringing the performance in line with the actual flight manuals.
In other words, there’s never a situation where writing a flight manual for Cliffs of Dover is a good idea.

1. Can you tell us anything about the forthcoming sequel and where you intend to take the series after that?

I cannot talk about the sequel until the official announcement, sorry.

2. Do you consider that you've achieved about as much as you can, performance wise, with the game engine at the moment and that people's systems now have to be improved to improve performance?

Yes, we’re pretty of the same opinion. We’re not doing further optimization at this time, we’re improving features instead. Specifically landscape geometry and clouds for starters, but all that is for the sequels.

1. Is going to be more view distance whitouut touching much the performance? I think in the first versions the view dstance was more.

It’s really hard to compare versions, too much has changed. I’m not sure if we can do anything to drastically improve performance as related to view distance at this time, sorry.

1. Why was Clod released (in the condition it was in)?

We had to release on the announced release date. Never any question about that on any levels.

2. Have you had serious problems re-writing the various code routines?

As clearly shown by some of our beta patches in the past, no, of course not, why would you ever think that?

3. Do you still have some of the original engine coders?

Yes. We even still have the core of the original 2001 Il-2 team working on the products.

4. Do you have anybody responsible for 'gameplay?' - serious question.

Yes, but not with Cliffs of Dover at this time. Honest answer.

5. Do you think releases (both game and patches) have been handled competently?

Well, it was either test with the community, or keep the patches brewing internally with tests taking much longer. If we had done this, the community would have imploded months ago being torn between the latest conspiracy theory of us closing down, and screams of "where's the promised patch give it to us now show us your progress".

6. Do you think the strong criticisms of Clod, on a forum such as this, are fair and reasonable?

I do think that people that post on the forums are naturally much more passionate and particular about the game than the average player. I do believe that we deserve most of the criticism that we get, if not always the tone in which it is offered. So, that covers fair.
Whether it’s reasonable is a more complex question to answer. The vocal minority always claims (and sincerely believes) that they represent the silent majority. We have our own opinion of what the silent majority wants however, and that often clashes with the forum consensus. At other times forum criticism can be unreasonable simply because some forum posters just don’t understand the simple realities of running a business.
So, in short, forum criticism is almost always fair, but not always reasonable.

1. will this game ever run good on windows xp using dx9? 'good' defined as 30 avg fps on black death track.

That’s quite an interesting way to define “good” performance. Black Death was never intended as a 30 FPS benchmark goal. It was rather intended as an extreme way to bring any system to its knees.
Just upgrade to Win 7, please.

2. will you ever consider getting rid of steam and going to hyper-lobby format?

No.

3. what pc components, drivers, supporting software...etc. do you now recommend to run the game optimally, given so much of the code has changed since original release date since the game was first spec'd out.

I cannot answer that question off the top of my head, sorry

4. was the epilipsy filter a fraud? honestly, it was so absurd. very hard to believe in hindsight.

No that was indeed a real situation, a real publisher requirement, and our desperate attempt to address it at the last second.

5. surprise, did you know that B6 doesn't even like CLOD?

Why would that be a surprise? I know very few people that, you know, love love Cliffs of Dover.

6. did you hire any of the Daidalos Team member to work on CLOD when you put out those help wanted advertisements a while back?

We need full time employees in our Moscow office. Most of our current employees only speak Russian, so new employees have to be fluent in Russian as well. I’m not aware of anyone at Daidalos who fits all those criteria.

7. will the final patch include moving dogfight server and rearm, refuel and repair capability?

Of course not, who ever said that it would?

8. after the final patch, where do we go to join 128 player battles online?

We don’t run our own servers if that’s what you ask.

9. why did oleg leave? the real reason.

The only person who should ever answer this question is Oleg himself.

10. if you could do it all over again, would you?

Yes, just differently.

Have you seen how many times the same questions are asked, and if so
Why are they not being answered unambiguously, or a way that appears deceptive?
Why is there so much emphasis placed on the sequels process when most want CoD fixed?

Because we’re a business. Our goal is to make money. Fixing Cliffs of Dover does not bring in any money, and it has not pretty much from the start. Even if we spend another year working on nothing but Cliffs of Dover and release a super-mega-ultra update with co-op, blackjack, and hookers, how many copies do you honestly believe the game will sell?
Then the entire team can happily go and look for a new job, preferably in a third world country where it’ll be easier to hide from our investors.

Can you please open the game up to third parties and modders to fix.
The game has amazing potential, but is obviously quite broken at the moment.

This has always been our plan, and we still cannot get around to it. We obviously cannot just release the source code, and making end-user tools is not something that we have the resources to do at the moment. This fact greatly upsets me.

Are you ever going to fix the severe particle effects fps issues without resorting to making the effect look like it was made with lego?

(blows a raspberry).

My questions would be all about the main map itself (many others are pointing out all the other issues, no need to add anything there) but they would need elaboration and this is not the place. So I will be short:
1. As a matter of principle would you be OK with one or two "communities" (actually myself and some others) working to correct the many flaws, lacks, incoherences, wrongs, missing elements etc of the MAIN map, under your control, when it is possible (even if still far away, the work itself will take probably more than one year anyway)?
2. An idea when this could happen (granted as long as it is not "never" the question is rather rhetorical...I suspect the answer)?

See above about tools. Map-making tools are number one on our list of end-user tools to release, whenever it is we’ll be able to.

1. What specifically is preventing clouds from being depicted in a volume and quality that is competitive with other sims currently on the market?

Are you saying there is a sim out there today that has clouds of better quality at greater volume, and offering better performance? I.e. matches all three criteria, quality, volume, and FPS?
Because I know there isn’t.

2. What is your assessment of the quality of current AI speech routines. What if anything do you intend to do to improve them in the future?

AI speech does less than half of what we wanted it to do for Cliffs of Dover. Unfortunately the person responsible for the task left without completing it and we’re still trying to pick up the pieces.

Will the sequel have AI comms that work properly and have a level of detail/available commands that is closer to what we had in IL-1946 series. Offline play in even the exceptionally good Desastersoft campaigns is badly stifled by the extremely limited AI comms system we are stuck with in Cliffs.

Yes it will.

Will it ever be possible to add collisions to trees?

This murders FPS. We have too many trees.
We can only do it on a map that’s not as tree-y as the Channel.

1. Can we ever expect authentic looking cloud cover and weather environments that actually effect gameplay?

That’s what we’re working on right now, for the sequel.

2. Lastly has there been any progress on making the AI work and fly like we would expect or are we stuck with either barrel rolls or no reaction at all?

It already does a lot more than barrel rolls or no reaction.

1. How do you expect your current business model to deliver a profit while using the traditional il-2, addon every 2-3 years approach, and do you plan to offer DLC content in the future?

Add-ons every 2-3 years has never been our business model, and we've evolved even further away from Il-2 lately.

2. Why are weathering layers of skins unable to be packed in such a way that they can be modified or improved by users?

We hated seeing horrible flat user-made skins everywhere in the original Il-2, so we settled on the technology that keeps the lower-end of the quality bar firmly set where no user effort can nudge it lower – even if that means also setting the ceiling for great skin makers.

1. Are the team hoping to continue the series (all being well) as was mentioned earlier in the development cycle?

Yes

2. Are you going to be in a position to give the planned overdue announcement regarding future development’s any time soon?

I hope so.

Can we increase even more the degree of realism e.g. available & working aircraft systems?
Just a side note, please remove the ever icing clouds, most of them are not, especially flying low, it's not that often sub zero.

We are seriously addressing our approach to modeling various systems. A lot of the stuff that we spent so much effort on with Cliffs of Dover ended up being a dud, no one wants it, no one uses it. At the same time a lot of systems people clearly want and need are not modeled with enough details.
So do expect a more sane approach in the sequels.

1. Is it possible to expand on the not before seen special feature that was mentioned? Will it come for the sequel or will it not come out now?

Sequel

2. Any news on how the vehicle control will be implemented? Will that ship with the sequel?

We still don’t know what to do with the feature commercially.

1. Is it save to say that the the sequel will, besides adding new content, fix all major gameplay, graphic ,multiplayer issues we currently have?

Since I fear we may differ on our definitions of major issues, I’d rather not commit myself to that.
Obviously no one here wants to repeat the Cliffs of Dover release fiasco. We really do want to get it right next time.

2. Will there be a solid documentation for engine management, level bombing etc.?

We are planning for an in-flight checklist feature, for starters.

3. What happend to the offical announcement for the sequel?

Delayed due to external circumstances. Not under my control at all.

4. Is someone still working on improving and/or adding new/better sounds?

Yes, that’s our sound designer’s only job.

You said earlier:'we really want to release at least the map-making SDK to the public “as is”, which is why they’re not covered by the next patch v. sequels discussion.'
If this is released will it be possible for an organised community effort to improve certain elements of the main COD map or will the sdk be only for creating new small maps?

Yes, the SDK will allow people to edit existing maps.

As you probably know quite a few people are disappointed with the current map and feel it could be made better by making changes to tree coverage/ hedgerows/etc. These would not be difficult changes technically, but would be time consuming and labour intensive - and therefore ideal for talented community members to undertake whilst the developers focus on the sequel (almost like a Team Daidolos for COD).
If the choice is between NO further work on the map OR allowing an (organised) community effort to make improvements (with your final approval regarding quality) would you be agreeable to this happening?

See above.

Videos from the Igromir pre-release version of COD seem to show a better implementation of the map. Were changes made after Igromir for performance reasons, and if so can those changes be easily reversed?

The entire year before the release is really hazy for me. I cannot say what changes were made to the map after Igromir. I want to say it shipped largely the same. If anything, we might have reduced the number of smaller trees and bushes around the landscape to improve performance, and adding them back would be a quick, fatal fix.

May I expect a sequel including a comprehensive manual for the DM, FM, FMB, including scripting?

Probably not comprehensive enough. See our manuals for the old Il-2 products.

Can you comment at this time on whether the next sequel will be Moscow as previously stated, whether Stalingrad will be a separate sequel to follow, or how the MMO option will fit into the series?

I cannot talk about the sequel until the official announcement, sorry.

2. How about flak control? it's for the sequel?

Yes, not for Cliffs of Dover.

I'd be interested to know if you've addressed the aircraft visibility (or invisibility) issue? IMO, the problem has all but killed the game. Whatever the reason for it, it doesn't really work in a simulation. You simply can't shoot what you can't see.

We hope it’s been addressed with the latest patch.

Precisely how many separate projects does Maddox Games intend to work on at one time? Is the rumoured MMO to be developed by MG also?

I cannot talk about the sequel until the official announcement, sorry.
Do want to add however that the occasional rumors that pop up around here simply mystify me. Why would anyone go through the trouble of doing all that? Lame and so very very creepy.

Luthier, will you continue to support CLOD independently with updates 'AFTER' the release of a sequel?

No. As I stated previously, this current patch, once pushed out to steam, will be our final update to Cliffs of Dover proper. All future work will be done within the framework of the sequels.

1. Why are there no plans to sort the problem of not being able to use the main componant of this game (the Channel Map) for coops?

Please see above.

2. Will the terrible weathering on Allied aircraft be fixed?

It’s not terrible.

Hello Luthier, my question is simple, shall have we the correction of the bug of rear-view mirrors on the English planes for the next patch.

We “almost” got it into the release candidate, but decided not to delay it because of the mirrors. Really hoping to get it working for the final release.

1. Will dev fix the pop up trees and buildings or provide greater view distance for people with high end cards?
2. Why do you have pop up buildings and not fade in.
People in bombers can't fly higher than 3'000m because targets pop up seconds before they must drop bombs.

We are aware of the issue, especially in relation to bombers.

When will you fix the service ceilings in aircraft? The 109 is not able to reach 10000 meters. The real ones do.

Please see the most recent patch notes.

You say you are 'not proud' of Cliffs of Dover' and fair enough you should not be.
Will you be offering a discount on the sequel, to people who bought Cliffs of Dover, as an apology?

Seriously?

1. Will the lack of a decent Co-op mode be put right in the patch or the Sequel.

Please see above for my thoughts on co-op.

2. Will the Channel map be available for Co-op in the online mode.

It’s available now.

Are you working on the bombers bombsigths? The german one dont work completely , (the triangle that shows when the bomb drop occur isnt working)

We’ll see if we can get this in. The list of issues is dozens of pages long, and the amount of time to do everything is almost astronomical. We’re tying to prioritize.

I know you stated the next CloD patch will be the last, so that means any fixes, advances and such into the game engine that come from the sequel will not be translated at some time or another back into CloD? Will Clod be completely abandoned in whatever state the final patch leaves it with no hope small updates, etc?

Why would you think that? We’ve never done that before, and I’ve always stated that our plans remain the same. There were many issues in the original IL-2 in 2001. After a few updates to the original, Forgotten Battles was released and there were no more updates to the original Il-2. That doesn’t mean it was abandoned however! You can still play all of the original Il-2 content with 1946, all carried over and updated with the rest of the engine.

Any chance of stopping the trees and their attendant shadows looking like they're having an epileptic fit?

I would think most of the community should know by now that mentioning epilepsy to the team is a very, very bad idea.

If your team cannot fix this first game, and give us what was originally promised/expected, what is there to show us that the new game will be any better, and worth our support, dedication, and more importantly, our money?

Don’t give us your money on day 1.

[Edit] Part II
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...d=1#post465681

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Thanks for the feedback and info luthier!

[kristorf]

So from what I basically readfrom this is
It's just about as fixed as we can be bothered to fix it (or are capable of) , if you don't like it tough, we want your money???

[droz]

Great read Luthier. Thanks for replying to those questions. Keep up the good work. All the people I regularly play with are very happy with the RC patch, just a couple of things that need attention in our opinion.

Thanks

[SlipBall]

I enjoyed the answers luthier...shed the tree problem after BOM, and head south

[Flanker35M]

S!

Interesting read. Some answers clearly were a snap to the community as community is not always that correctly behaving either. But would like to point out the AI is still crap, worth nothing but be a target drone. Communications are, well as stated, bits and pieces it seems. Planes do still disappear at certain distances or are VERY vague.

For the bomber guys I really hope the "LOD circle" with popping trees and buildings will be fixed as for them it is a pain to align correctly when target is visible like seconds before drop when flying higher up.

I am sure devs want the Battle for "insert Russian town here" be correct and not a CoDish fiasco as if they launch a failcake decipting "great patriotic war" in Russia they will be lynched by the angry mob within a week. Anything related to that era sells there more than weed in a campus Look at WoT subscriptions, in Russia 3-4 times than in rest of world.

Anyways..Seems we will be stuck with CoD as it is almost and then waiting for the next installment of the series. If any kind of SDK is released that will help some to revive CoD, if it is comprehensive enough. Thanks for the answers Luthier, awaiting for the next post with answers

[arthursmedley]

Thankyou for finding the time to do this Ilya and for your candid answers. Lots of food for thought here. Will be looking forward to more of your answers to users questions and looking forward to the sequal too.

[MadTommy]

I'm confused. Will CloD & the squeal be merged / compatible? i.e if i buy the sequel will i see its benefits when playing in a BoB scenario.

I'll reserve judgement until the Steam released patch. But it does not sound great, time will tell.

[Freycinet]

Originally Posted by luthier

Cliffs of Dover was intended to be a sandbox game more than anything, expansive, open, giving complete freedom to the players. If you’ll remember, the original Il-2 owed much of its success to user-made content. We aimed for the same with Cliffs of Dover. Instead of building complex single-player content in-house, we gave the tools to the community. Cliffs of Dover has a much better mission builder with scripting support, supports complex moddable briefings and debriefings, and so on.
Unfortunately 3rd party support never materialized the way we hoped it would, and we ourselves cannot at this point go back and redo single player.

This.

If *several* community members had been more interested in using their talents to contribute rather than to bitch & moan we would have had much more content by now.

In the original Il-2 the campaigns and missions that came with the sim were never impressive. A lot of the work made by the community, however, was fantastic. Sandbox sims give people the freedom to make amazing & complex content, instead of the "on-rails" action you see from most modern games, with zero replay value after the missions that came out of the box are finished.

A year or so after the original Il-2 came out there were already web sites and manuals (made by enthusiasts) on how to use the FMB. Granted, the FMB of CoD is much more complex, but it would really be great if the community would churn out fantastic scripts for it, rather than moaning about the hue of English fields ad nauseam... Just an example.

I myself try to make some positive contribution to the community with my movies (a couple of tutorials in particular). I wish some of the moaners would spend just a tenth of their energy on contributing rather than criticizing, but hey, I realise that isn't fashionable in this day and age...

[Freycinet]

Originally Posted by MadTommy

I'm confused. Will CloD & the squeal be merged / compatible? i.e if i buy the sequel will i see its benefits when playing in a BoB scenario.

I'll reserve judgement until the Steam released patch. But it does not sound great, time will tell.

The sequel will incorporate all the CoD content (hopefully improved as per the improvements coming with BoM). So, you get BoM and CoD as well. But it won't install into or on top of CoD.

That's how it worked with Il-2 and its sequel Il-2FB. FB had all the content of Il-2 + Finland and Hungary.