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  #1  
Old 07-22-2012, 02:11 PM
Upthair Upthair is offline
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Default An Option of Using the Old 2DoF for Gunsight View

As in the screenshot below, the gunsight ring appears broken when you look a bit sideways. With 6DoF implemented, this is, of course, correct, since the position of the 'eye' changes when the head is rotated.

But sometimes you need to aim and shoot while you are looking a bit sideways, as when attempting a snapshot at a plane coming from one side of you; so the awkward gunsight ring makes aiming difficult or unpleasant in this case.

A player with TrackIR can move the ring to the middle of the gunsight by actively shifting his own head horrizongtally or vertically. But those without TrackIR do not have this choice. I know there are keys in 4.11 to do it too, but during a fight you do not have the time to move the ring precisely enough with those keys.

So an option of disabling 6DoF while in Gunsight View (default key: Shift+F1) would be very nice indeed.


Thanks a lot!

~
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Last edited by Upthair; 07-22-2012 at 02:30 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-22-2012, 02:24 PM
EJGr.Ost_Caspar EJGr.Ost_Caspar is offline
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This is not part of 6DoF, its the simulation of the real eye position and is, what you really would see in real life. To compensate you will have to lean left (in your pic) a bit, which is easy with 6DoF now.
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  #3  
Old 07-22-2012, 02:34 PM
Upthair Upthair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar View Post
This is not part of 6DoF, its the simulation of the real eye position and is, what you really would see in real life.
I said so.
Quote:
With 6DoF implemented, this is, of course, correct, since the position of the 'eye' changes when the head is rotated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar View Post
To compensate you will have to lean left (in your pic) a bit, which is easy with 6DoF now.
To do it by means of the keys and with decent precision, in the heat of an air combat, is unfortunately not practical.

Last edited by Upthair; 07-22-2012 at 02:46 PM.
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  #4  
Old 07-22-2012, 03:50 PM
_1SMV_Gitano _1SMV_Gitano is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upthair View Post
But sometimes you need to aim and shoot while you are looking a bit sideways, as when attempting a snapshot at a plane coming from one side of you; so the awkward gunsight ring makes aiming difficult or unpleasant in this case.
Im my opinion it is not a matter of gunsight. In such istances my suggestion is to put your line of fire on the flight path of the enemy. You have to stick the view on your enemy and guess the aiming point and the right moment to shoot but with some training you can get an fairly good percentage of hits.
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:01 PM
IceFire IceFire is offline
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In that particular instance it would probably be easier if the real gunsight piper were being used instead of the Russian one (in error). The Russian one barely fits anyways but it's not the right setup.

Still the key point where the center point of the gunsight is set to infinity so that it's always on target no matter your perspective works. That's the key thing... using keys is hard but that whole system is really meant for a 6DoF implement like TrackIR or using some sort of hat setup on a joystick to simulate.
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  #6  
Old 07-22-2012, 04:51 PM
EJGr.Ost_Caspar EJGr.Ost_Caspar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upthair View Post
So an option of disabling 6DoF while in Gunsight View (default key: Shift+F1) would be very nice indeed.
The contrary would be necessary - 6DoF would be needed to be enabled in gunsight view, so you can lean sidewards, even if its unpractical.
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  #7  
Old 07-22-2012, 06:58 PM
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Fenice_1965 Fenice_1965 is offline
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Usually when I aim I press Shf F1 to lock the gunsight, even if I have track ir.
Too hard to aim with moving gunsight.
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  #8  
Old 07-23-2012, 09:21 AM
Upthair Upthair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar View Post
The contrary would be necessary - 6DoF would be needed to be enabled in gunsight view, so you can lean sidewards, even if its unpractical.
Yes, as you said, in the current 4.11.1 gunsight view the player has only 2DoF freedom; he cannot, for example, lean to the left or right in this view mode (but he can do it after leaving gunsight view). However, motion of the pilot's eye (not the player's view control) is no longer 2DoF now; otherwise there would not have been the broken gunsight due to a changed eye position.

Before version 4.11 (the arrival of 6DoF support), in Gunsight View there was no change in the position - as opposed to direction - of the pilot's eye; in other words, the eye never left the 'centre' where it was, so that the ring was always in the middle of the reflector*, as shown in the screenshot below. Now the position of the eye is variable, in accordance with its direction. So, in the current gunsight view, the pilot's eye is moving in a 6DoF (or rather 5DoF) manner, albeit with only 2DoF (namely, the eye's direction) being controllable by the player, and the rest of the 6DoF movements being dictated by the game itself.

What I meant in the posts above is this:
It would be better to have a choice between the current Gunsight View with player-uncontrollable eye position movement and a Gunsight View without that eye position movement, the latter being exactly the original 2DoF Gunsight View before the introduction of 6DoF in 4.11.
To illustrate the latter choice, I added below a screenshot from the IL-2 UP3 Mod. It was taken in UP3's gunsight view, while 6DoF had been enabled. But the view movement here is strictly 2DoF, leaving the ring exactly in the middle of the reflector*.

Also, what definition would the Daidalos Team give to 'Gunsight View' in IL-2 1946? I guess the following one won't raise much dispute:
It is the view mode for the player to properly aim at the target with the gunsight, or more precisely, the view mode in which the simulated pilot has already adjusted the position of his head (or eye) in preparation for a shot so that he can see the gunsight ring diplayed right in the middle of the reflector*.

----------------------
*reflector - that piece of glass where the ring is seen
_
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Last edited by Upthair; 07-24-2012 at 07:58 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2012, 09:18 AM
Felix K Felix K is offline
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Default Some New Thoughts

I don't like the 4.11.1 gunsight view either: In it the broken ring due to head rotation only appears to be more realistic, but the contrary, in fact, is the truth.

The pilot inside the cockpit is a human, with a flexible spine and soft muscles. When he wants to aim, he makes adjustments of his body (trunk, neck, and head), so as to let his eye find the ring in the centre of the reflector. This is what happens in the game when we look straight ahead in gunsight view: we see the ring displayed in the middle of the reflector exactly because the pilot's body is flexible. In other words, the "straight ahead" view in gunsight view has already simulated the flexibility of the pilot's body and his active adjustment thereof for aiming.

When in reality his head is turned slightly - for example, to the left - to the extent that the gunsight is still in view, that flexibility of his body is of course not gone. Neither is the adjustment activity if the pilot tries to aim at a target. Yet in the 4.11.1 gunisight view (the aiming view, so to speak), the body flexibility together with its adjustment is lost when the head is not facing exactly straight ahead, as described in this thread. The pilot's head rotates like a rigid crank fixed above the seat:



But no pilot is a crank-like robot. Imagine that you want to peep through a tiny hole in a gate, a hole as high above the ground as are your eyes, and that you have not approached the gate carefully enough for the hole to be precisely in front of your either eye. Of course you lean slightly towards it, to align one of your eyes with the hole. And it is extremely easy! So it is with a pilot.

If it is said that the pilot's adjustment of his body would be much more difficult in the course of real combat flight, which frequently imposes on him Gs, side-slip, and so on, then I need to point out that this belongs to a completely different category in flight simulation, ie head shake effects, or whatever it is called. When however the aircraft is flying straight and level, at a constant speed, no such difficulty should be present.

Felix
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  #10  
Old 12-13-2012, 10:13 PM
Bearcat Bearcat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar View Post
This is not part of 6DoF, its the simulation of the real eye position and is, what you really would see in real life. To compensate you will have to lean left (in your pic) a bit, which is easy with 6DoF now.

.. and what you would have had to do in real life. It works for me..
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